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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

That IS somewhat comical (as dire as the situation is). So now the Jewish reporter is spying for the Nazi's? These people are off their rockers. I don't know if you've seen the VICE special on the North Korean labor camps in Siberia, but it doesn't paint a pretty picture of how some Russians feel about Jews. They are pointing the finger shouting "Nazi!" while displaying eerily similar behavior.

One has to wonder what the hell the mayor of Sloviansk thinks he is going to accomplish by holding an American/Israeli journalist against his will.




posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 02:32 PM
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Source: #Russia has enlisted the help of violent #Chechen gangs to help pro-#Kremlin forces in #Sloviansk #Ukraine



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 02:35 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra



Except for the fact the Us is not an oil exporter so pushing up gas prices would not benefit the US


Petroa Dollars ? Who made OPEC agree to only price oil in $$$$ and who invaded Sadam for selling in Euro's ?

Who said it was going to come to the aid of Europe with liquid gas if we got cut off ?

The USA is in up to its neck in Oil deals and Exon is pumping in Russia so I reject your argument on these grounds but even if i played along you would still have to counter claims that this is also about military spending going up in the USA from it's current $3bn a day.



It takes more than just stating the theory on why you think this is all about gas prices


Nice try but I think by now anyone watching knows I have said it's more than just oil/gas prices.











edit on 23-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 02:39 PM
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originally posted by: asen_y2k

Source: #Russia has enlisted the help of violent #Chechen gangs to help pro-#Kremlin forces in #Sloviansk #Ukraine


Note sure how true but that far right leader from the Ukraine who got bumped off was quoted as asking some Chechen terrorist group for help in attacking Russia.

Hope you take my word for it but feel free to ask for a link



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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a reply to: VirusGuard

You have not bothered to read any of my posts if that is what you got out of it. none of my posts have to do with whose is bigger. None of my posts have to do with "cosmic technology". None of my posts have to do with Russia as a backwards nation.

That's what happens when you don't bother to understand the posts and the information / facts the position is based on. Its what happens when you assume what my position is without actually asking about it. Another member of the Pro Russian crowd got confused in another thread with one of my posts in support of Iran. If you guys took the time to not make things personal, you might actually see a critical line of thinking that some of the people you / others target.

Believe it or not its possible to not like Putin or Russian actions while at the same time not Liking Obama and his actions. That's not what concerns you though. What concerns you is the black and white issues of East verse West. That mindset is a problem because its no longer supported by global politics.

There is not and never has been an absolute for right and wrong.

As for baiting - that's all on you and several others. I have done my best to ignore and then try to drag the post back on topic but lately I am just sick of it.

As for moving on im all for it. If you wish to respond to this post you are more than welcome however I will not be responding publicly anymore. I will respond via U2U so as not to drag the thread any more off topic than we have..


Back on topic -

Germany Helped Prep Russia for War, U.S. Sources Say



Over the past few years, NATO countries have helped Russia revolutionize its armed forces. Now questions are arising about a German defense contractor that trained the Russian military.

The world was shocked when Russian special operations forces invaded Crimea with advanced technology, drastically improved operations, and with so much operational security that even agencies in the U.S. intelligence community didn’t see it coming. In Washington, government and congressional leaders are wondering how the Russian special operations forces got so good, so fast, without anyone noticing. Some are wondering how much help Russia had from the West.

In 2011, for example, the German defense contractor Rheinmetall signed a $140 million contract to build a combat simulation training center in Mulino, in southwest Russia, that would train 30,000 Russian combat troops per year. While the facility wasn't officially scheduled to be completed until later this year, U.S. officials believe that Germany has been training Russian forces for years.


Click link for remainder of article...

German response -
Germany suspends Rheinmetall military contract with Russia


German Economy Minister Sigmar Gabriel has halted a major Russian military contract for the Rheinmetall defense technology group, at least temporarily, in the wake of the ongoing crisis in Crimea.

The economy ministry led by Social Democrat Sigmar Gabriel said on Wednesday evening that it would suspend a planned defense contract in Russia for German firm Rheinmetall, owing to developments in Crimea.

"Given the current situation, the German government considers the construction of a military training facility in Russia to be inappropriate," Gabriel's ministry told the German DPA news agency on Wednesday.

The ministry said it was in contract with the Düsseldorf-based defense technology company, and that no deliveries for the ongoing project were currently planned. Rheinmetall would remain in contact with Berlin, the ministry said, "so that the German government can take any necessary measures in connection with further developments."

Overturned in a day amid sudden scrutiny

The project, finalized in 2011 and due for completion this year, came into focus earlier on Wednesday when Rheinmetall announced its annual performance figures. The company had said that it intended to honor its contractual obligations. Meanwhile, the economy ministry had said in its intial response on Wednesday that the deal was first cleared in parliament in 2011, and did not involve the delivery of weaponry to Russia.


Click link for remainder of article...


edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: VirusGuard

Please understand the difference between LNG and oil and what OPEC deals in.

An increase in oil prices does not help the US or its economy. We are NOT an oil exporting nation.


edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:05 PM
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Russian Su-24 paralyzes American destroyer

www.timebomb2000.com...

Everything had gone according to plan, the American radars were reading from the course of the approach to the finish. But suddenly extinguished all screens. "Aegis" did not work, the missiles could not obtain an assignment target.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: victor7

From the opinion piece -


Hmmmmm....A Su-24 flies over the Donald Cook and disables their Aegis system and 27 sailors are so distraught over this they submit their resignation when they get to port? Sounds like Russian propoganda to me.


US Sailors are not able to just resign unless they are commissioned officers and even then there is more to it than turning in a resignation at port.

I don't buy the story at all.

Specifically how does Russia "know" their "weapon" worked? how do they know what occurred in the CIC on the vessel?



Apparently you missed this part as well -

Sheer propaganda opinion piece. Of course the destroyer didn't respond as we are not at a state of war with Russia. From the news reports the SU-24 buzzed the ship a number of times as the ship tried every radio and frequency it had in order to tell the plane to back off. In a real state of war it would of been a different story. The ship wouldn't be in the Black sea to begin with and certainly not by itself without air cover and other supporting assets. Matter of fact if you take a look at the second url;

de.ria.ru...

It is an opinion piece and not one based on technical knowledge or facts. Also, the article was written in German if you go to the link and at the very bottom of the article is this statement;

The opinion of the author not coincide with the opinion of the editorial staff.

So the Russians printed it but they don't even agree with it.

edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
Actually its a consistent push by some to derail the thread when evidence is provided that does not support the Russian story.....................

That's what happens when you don't bother to understand the posts and the information / facts the position is based on..........

Another member of the Pro Russian crowd got confused in another thread with one of my posts in support of Iran................

As for baiting - that's all on you and several others. I have done my best to ignore and then try to drag the post back on topic but lately I am just sick of it..........................



Sounds like you are saying that you are being persecuted for some reason.



Please understand the difference between LNG and oil and what OPEC deals in.


Here you try to split hairs when words like oil/gas are used.

What you don't do is listen or answer questions to be fair and you type so fast that I have trouble keeping up with you so can we stick with oil/gas prices being effected by this war, who profits and who profits from any new military spending contracts please because I think most people would agree that money is behind most wars.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: Xcathdra



Except for the fact the Us is not an oil exporter so pushing up gas prices would not benefit the US


Petroa Dollars ? Who made OPEC agree to only price oil in $$$$ and who invaded Sadam for selling in Euro's ?

Who said it was going to come to the aid of Europe with liquid gas if we got cut off ?

The USA is in up to its neck in Oil deals and Exon is pumping in Russia so I reject your argument on these grounds but even if i played along you would still have to counter claims that this is also about military spending going up in the USA from it's current $3bn a day.



It takes more than just stating the theory on why you think this is all about gas prices


Nice try but I think by now anyone watching knows I have said it's more than just oil/gas prices.












Ok your confused about petro dollars and what they are. Petro dollars is just a common guide to oil prices to stop fluctuation the US doesnt make money on there use at all. What it is is opec countries set the price of oil on what the US market will pay for it. This doesn't mean the transaction occurs in US dollars in fact canadian dollar is used alot for transactions.the dollar is whats called a global currency meaning every country accepts it, all international transactions are priced in dollars so it makes it easier. No figuring out what the exchange rate is etc. The reason this occurs is wall street mostly if i want to invest say 200000 in russia i dont worry about the exchange rate only the dollar amount. The only way Us currency would ever be replaced is if the new york stock exchange became a minor player in world financial markets.

Most conspiracy people misunderstand the petrodollar completely two countries dont have to use us dollars but for comparison the price is set in us dollars nothing more. Or in other words your theory is silly no benifit to the US whatsoever



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:17 PM
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originally posted by: victor7

Russian Su-24 paralyzes American destroyer

www.timebomb2000.com...

Everything had gone according to plan, the American radars were reading from the course of the approach to the finish. But suddenly extinguished all screens. "Aegis" did not work, the missiles could not obtain an assignment target.


....and a spotted pink pig flew by!
I don't believe that, nothing more than lies for Russian home audience and the gullible elsewhere.



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:23 PM
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a reply to: victor7



After this incident had "Donald Cook" as reported foreign mass media, quickly calling at a port in Romania. There, 27 crew members had submitted her resignation. It is said that all 27 people had written that they had no intention to put their lives on the line. This is indirectly confirmed by a statement from the Pentagon. It is claimed that this action the crew of the American ship would have demoralized.



LOL, this is a joke, right? Unlike the Ukrainian army, the U.S. Navy doesn't just bow their heads in shame and resign, especially not against the Russians.

Pure Russian propaganda piece, wow they are really stepping it up. They can't have real reports coming from sources like VICE now can they?
edit on 23-4-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:25 PM
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a reply to: rigel4

The fact that Su-24 flew and circled the ship 12 times for whole 90 min. sure does say some "study" was going on in the Su-24 cockpit. Russians would not risk such large exposure of 90 min. that could have possibly turned into a hot engagement and chain reactions followed.

Russians do not make bold moves until and unless they are upto something meaningful.




posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:27 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: rigel4

The fact that Su-24 flew and circled the ship 12 times for whole 90 min. sure does say some "study" was going on in the Su-24 cockpit. Russians would not risk such large exposure of 90 min. that could have possibly turned into a hot engagement and chain reactions followed.

Russians do not make bold moves until and unless they are upto something meaningful.



Because the US and Russia are not at war. They can fly as they wish over our vessels being they are in international waters / airspace.

If we were in a shooting war an aircraft from the 1960's is not a match for that type of naval vessel and systems on board.
edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: rigel4

The fact that Su-24 flew and circled the ship 12 times for whole 90 min. sure does say some "study" was going on in the Su-24 cockpit. Russians would not risk such large exposure of 90 min. that could have possibly turned into a hot engagement and chain reactions followed.

Russians do not make bold moves until and unless they are upto something meaningful.



How do you know this?
seriously



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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Back on topic -


AtlanticCouncil ‏@AtlanticCouncil · 3m
5PM Today former Russian Prime Minister @MKasyanov & @DamonMacWilson will talk Putin foreign policy #ACRussia




Russian Embassy ‏@RusEmbKuw · 2h
All information concerning conditions for doing business in Russia on a single portal - www.investinregions.ru...

edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



OSCE Update

English EuroMaidan ‏@EuroMaidanEN · 8m
OSCE Daily Report of April 23:

* Donetsk: tense, with no significant signs of de-escalation. Separatists have... fb.me...

edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)




Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 46m
#EU needs an anergy union because of #Russia creating crisis n #Ukraine news.liga.net... … |EMPR #Poland #France

edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:35 PM
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What the hell is Russia broadcasting former messages from WWII for?


RT's WWII Tweets ‏@Voina_41_45eng · 6h
April 23, 1944: The USSR established diplomatic ties with the leadership of Denmark resistance movement




Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 4m
#Russia's war on neighbors is the new world disorder, Mikheil Saakashvili addressed... @SaakashviliM www.youtube.com... … |EMPR #Ukraine

edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:37 PM
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One last thing.... If the Aegis was blinded by the Su-24, then one would expect the destroyer
to haul ass out of the Black sea..wouldn't one?

So whereabouts is the destroyer now? That's right
still in the Black sea.. happy as a clam.

EDIT: I found the link to this Aegis story.. Guess where,
Yea GLP..

Look for your selves I'm not posting it here.
edit on Wed, 23 Apr 2014 15:43:56 -0500433America/ChicagoWednesday4 by rigel4 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:40 PM
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Russia continues to grow more desperate to justify an invasion prior to the presidential elections -


EU Crimean Tatar ‏@CrimeaEU · 1m
BBC News - Ukraine crisis: Russia 'to respond if its interests' attacked www.bbc.com...


Does this mean the West / EU / NATO can invade Russia if their interests are attacked?

I will back track a statement I made -

When it comes to mindset and justification, Russia is very much a backwards nation. Everything they do is / has / creates the exact opposite effect. Maybe Russian interests wouldn't be attacked if they had not invaded Ukraine.



originally posted by: rigel4
One last thing.... If the Aegis was blinded by the Su-24, then one would expect the destroyer
to haul ass out of the Black sea..wouldn't one?

So whereabouts is the destroyer now? That's right
still in the Black sea.. happy as a clam.



Because as I stated sometime back that the mindset of some deals with east verse west instead of common sense and facts. They latch onto anything that appears to show Russia as something its not, no matter how ridiculous the claim is.
edit on 23-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 23 2014 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: dragonridr
Ok your confused about petro dollars and what they are. Petro dollars is just a common guide to oil prices to stop fluctuation the US doesnt make money on there use at all. What it is is opec countries set the price


I hate to use Wiki but en.wikipedia.org...


A petrodollar is a United States dollar earned by a country through the sale of its petroleum (oil) to another country.[1] The term was coined in 1973 by Georgetown University economics professor, Ibrahim Oweiss, who recognized the need for a term that could describe the dollar received by petroleum exporting countries (OPEC) in exchange for oil.


www.bloomberg.com...



OPEC nations are plowing cash into U.S. Treasuries at a more than 50 percent faster rate than all other foreign investors, an unintended benefit of oil prices above $100 a barrel.

Thanks to booming profits, the currency reserves of oil exporting nations have grown by $73 billion since January to more than $400 billion, creating more dollars to buy U.S. bonds, according to a Bank of America Corp. report last week.


henryckliu.com...



Many have suggested China is not compelled to buy US Treasuries with her trade surplus dollars. They point out that China does so voluntarily because US sovereign debt is the safest instrument as a storer of value. This is now obviously no longer true. So why does China continue to buy US sovereign debt? The answer is China has no other options but to become a creditor to the US due to US-China trade imbalance. The following explains why.


I could go on but I am sorry but I can not quite agree with you.

The Ukraine is desperate for a mere $20bn over two years, anyone that lends them that will most likely win any vote.

Back pocket change but the war spending and pumping up of oil prices over this $20bn is whats really behind all this unless you think we are going to risk a nuclear war over this $20bn that both the USA and Russia are choking the Ukraine over.

edit on 23-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: (no reason given)



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