It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

page: 399
367
<< 396  397  398    400  401  402 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 09:29 AM
link   
a reply to: Elysarian

Not sure it was a myth about Russia but tell me how a spec of dust from a pencil would damage anything in space unless it was traveling at 20,000mph and not in a geo-stable orbit with the space craft and that's assuming these pencils were used on space walks.

graphite does crumble and particles would indeed come off so maybe they put lead in their pencil instead.

Russia taking out every satellite in space over a week or two should be easy because all you need is little bits of lead shot released at 36,000 km above earth and then let gravity do the rest and this will be one of the first things to happen if the super powers go head to head and then lets see how the devastating communication's shutdown effects the global economy.

No one is going to risk even that over some little bit of earth known as the Ukraine and if they are allowed to because no one dares stand up to them then we have collectively contributed towards our own destruction.

edit on 21-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: Pencil dust hit my middle toe, it hurt




posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 09:30 AM
link   

originally posted by: VirusGuard
Sorry Sunburn and not the S-300 but that does not make me poorly informed or anything else and Washington can spin all it wants about being behind Russia with the speed record for torpedo's but the facts remain the same.


You need to make sure you reference the right system before casting aspersions then!

As for the "Sunburn", it is untested in combat so anything said about it until actually used is mere speculation - ironic as you later go on to talk about the Patriot system in GW1 - it certainly seems like a good system, but it remains to be seen whether it can get through the screen of a battlegroup. It's all very well upselling Russian systems, but you have to take into account the very good US/NATO systems as well.

As for the torpedo, it may well be the quickest torpedo going, but when it is going that fast, it is untargeted and straight running. To target, it needs to slow down, losing it's only advantage. It is also has an extremely limited range as well as being terribly noisy, so you can guarantee the sub launching it will be given a smack in the chops.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
All these toys cost money but even with the USA spending more on the military (Tax payers being mugged) then the rest of the world combined it is still not in a position to win a major conflict with or without a sneak attack on China/Russia and is making the same mistakes as Germany did in WWII with the worlds best tanks at the time.


Says you - if push came to shove between Russia/America and it stayed non-nuclear, the US is going to win. They have a massive tech advantage as well as numbers - factor in the rest of NATO and Russia is pissing in the wind. It wouldn't be a war of conquest, so any comparison to Germany in 1940 is moot - all NATO has to do is keep smacking the Russian columns with overwhelming air superiority and if the buggers got close enough to NATO armour, they'd be knocked out before they could close the distance.

Besides, Germany didn't have the "best tanks", but rather the most. Many of their tanks were no match against Allied tanks such as the Crusader, they just had more of them. Ironically, when they did bring out bigger, heavier tanks to counter them, they couldn't deploy them in numbers to make a difference.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Them Patriot missiles kept missing the targets in Gulf war one so lets not pretend we can shoot anything out of the sky's and how much again did they each cost.


In GW1, the Patriot was a brand new system and had it's flaws - it's why the British opted to not take it on - but since then it is a totally different system (PAC 3) and works bloody well, as proved in GW2 as it was quite capable of knocking both missiles and even NATO jets out the sky.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
It comes down to money and the last time I looked the USA had more debt than anyone else in the world, is borrowing money from China and the american public simply won't keep buying cuts at home whilst the government pretends to be the un-elected policeman of the world without a phony war, you are witnessing a phony war with Putin in on the deal.


This is a myth - The US has many avenues of raising funds, of which foreign holdings of long-term bonds equate to roughly half - the rest is raised internally. Of that, China has leant some $1 Trillion, with Japan holding around the same, the UK the next in line and so on. Most of the US foreign debtors (around 80%) is with friendly/allied nations, with only 20% owed to China.
edit on 21/4/14 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 09:40 AM
link   
a reply to: VirusGuard




I don't care what side he is on but if he has dirty hands, can fix the equipment then I will take him and his equipment on my side and anyone else can keep the $20m tanks, brass buttons and big smiley faces.


Again this is a soldier from the Ukraine, and has nothing to do with what I posted about the self defense forces being so well armed.

And since you insist on taking this thread off topic you can do it with yourself. If you would like to discuss the video itself then that's good, but I see you have no intention on that so enjoy.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 09:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: Elysarian

Not sure it was a myth about Russia but tell me how a spec of dust from a pencil would damage anything in space unless it was traveling at 20,000mph and not in a geo-stable orbit with the space craft and that's assuming these pencils were used on space walks.

graphite does crumble and particles would indeed come off so maybe they put lead in their pencil instead.


Maybe something to do with being conductive, perhaps?


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Russia taking out every satellite in space over a week or two should be easy because all you need is little bits of lead shot released at 36,000 km above earth and then let gravity do the rest and this will be one of the first things to happen if the super powers go head to head and then lets see how the devastating communication's shutdown effects the global economy.


They'd take out their own sat's as well!

Besides, not that much comms relies on satellites - all the big bandwidth stuff is fibre optics. Yes, it would hamper communications, but it would not come anywhere near to "devastating".. This is an area I know quite well, working in telecoms, specifically transmission systems, more specifically optical systems.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 09:51 AM
link   
a reply to: stumason



As for the "Sunburn", it is untested in combat so anything said about it until actually used is mere speculation - ironic as you later go on to talk about the Patriot system in GW1 - it certainly seems like a good system, but it remains to be seen whether it can get through the screen of a battlegroup. It's all very well upselling Russian systems, but you have to take into account the very good US/NATO systems as well.


You are correct we only know the speed of "Sunburn" and recorded images of what it does to a ship when it hits but unlike the patriot missiles it has not been tested in combat but you see Russia is not starting wars every other month to test them out so we will have to forgive them.

Russia needs "upselling" because everyone from the USA seems to think a conflict would be a walk in the park and we Americans are so good we can blow anything, including nukes out of the sky's, they drive rusty old tanks... blur ... blur ...Bull

" good US/NATO systems as well"

Yeah well I raise you China and yes you can go on about a split between the two but I think the split in Europe over this american aggression towards Russia might be of a bigger concern.

I hope not all your weapons are as good as they are cranked up to be because the USA are dishing them out to terrorists in Syria with the latest being a wire guided tank destroyer (range 5km) i thinks so never mind what apparently box cutters can do on 9/11 and ask yourself if that was a good move.

With respect I cannot address all the issue you have raised



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:25 AM
link   

originally posted by: stumason
Maybe something to do with being conductive, perhaps?

They'd take out their own sat's as well!

all the big bandwidth stuff is fibre optics.


They use gold leaf in space that is little harder then lead and parts that need to be are air tight are sealed plus I've seem them playing with water on flights, that conducts too so we will have to put that one to bed.

Take out sats well that's a burnt earth policy in one respect and creates an logistical advantage on home turf but taking into account economic considerations it's anything but a home goal.

Subs can tap into underwater cables, they do it all the time, bandwidth is not the issue for military communications.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

I addressed your comments on the post and the picture and since then you have tried to divert away from what you said, contradicted yourself so do think before talking about going off topic and stick by your words.

No I did not play the video because I have seen far too many library pictures of reports about Russian tanks being found in the wrong place at the wrong time and yes I now know these were not Russians.

Not just to me but others too you have gone on about dress code, or more precise in this case dirty hands and smoking because you could not see his uniform in the picture. I unlike you liked his dress, his skills and what I would assume to be a Russian tank/ppc for its simplicity.

Ten a penny medals, brass buttons and shinny shoes just don't hit the spot for me, I am sorry
edit on 21-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: Polished my boots and now my little toe hurts



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:27 AM
link   
a reply to: VirusGuard


Russia needs "upselling" because everyone from the USA seems to think a conflict would be a walk in the park and we Americans are so good we can blow anything, including nukes out of the sky's, they drive rusty old tanks... blur ... blur ...Bull


Actually, the real problem seems to be that you Russians think you are magically invincible. If NATO decides to blockade the Black Sea, you will start to starve and wind up eating each other.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:48 AM
link   

originally posted by: VirusGuard
They use gold leaf in space that is little harder then lead and parts that need to be are air tight are sealed plus I've seem them playing with water on flights, that conducts too so we will have to put that one to bed.


Who told you water was conductive? It isn't. Impurities in water can make it conductive, but pure (distilled) water such as they use on the ISS or found in cooling systems for CPU's for example, is not conductive.

Besides, we're talking about inside a capsule, not outside and during the first phases of manned missions to space (remember, you brought up the old NASA-pencil thing). Computer consoles etc are not airtight, even on modern spacecraft. You're just making stuff up now to fit your argument.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Take out sats well that's a burnt earth policy in one respect and creates an logistical advantage on home turf but taking into account economic considerations it's anything but a home goal.


What "economic considerations"? Oh, some live TV and some (expensive) communications services go offline? Like I said, the bulk of the worlds comms traffic is done by fibre optic cable - it's cheaper and more reliable.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Subs can tap into underwater cables, they do it all the time, bandwidth is not the issue for military communications.


Not quite sure what the relevance is to your "subs can tap undersea cables" comment. So what? I never said they could or couldn't. It would be bloody hard though, given the depths of most of them (aside from where they land) and if someone cut a cable, you can guarantee someone would know about it. In fact, we have just lost a subsea cable to a break this afternoon and we know full well about it.

And bandwidth is an issue for military comms, actually, as it is for any comms. You don't know what you're talking about. The UK, for example, has spent a few billion putting it's Skynet sat's in orbit to provide extended bandwidth for global communications over their previous system, which was rather limited - why spend all that money if bandwidth wasn't an issue?

edit on 21/4/14 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 10:53 AM
link   
a reply to: DJW001

We thanks for the compliment but us Russians don't post here because we don't talk English and this may explain why the views here are a little one side.

What on earth makes you think that NATO can block the black see and then you talk about "Russians think you are magically invincible"

True they/me/we might starve a bit faster than our american counterparts but then again we are not (in general, read who reports) quite so overweight and if you know your history you might recall that we will eat human body's to stay alive if we have too.

Our Mr Putin does not mind going one on one with your Mr Obama in a fight.

We buzz flew a US ship in the black sea hoping to get a response, did it another eleven times but had to fly back to base before we ran out of fuel.

Now we have had our fun, mines is bigger than your what have you got to say about the theory that this is a phony war and is about pushing up oil prices for Russia/Iran/USA and increasing military spending back home in the US and making Russians more patriotic towards Mr Putin for standing up to the bully boy of the world or is that just too way out.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:09 AM
link   
a reply to: stumason



but pure (distilled) water such as they use on the ISS or found in cooling systems for CPU's for example, is not conductive.


So it does not conduct electric does it now (Who said anything about distilled water anyway)
uk.answers.yahoo.com...
Drinking distilled water kills you over time, on the ISS or not
www.mercola.com...
Sorry too far off topic but i felt "You're just making stuff up now to fit your argument" needed an answer

Taps are already in place on cables under the sea, no sat's then this is plan 'B' and yes they do have a plan "C" using sonic booms that travel through the center of the earth but the bandwidth is like 0.5k or mega slow

communications would be the first thing to attack if ever this phony war took of






edit on 21-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:18 AM
link   
a reply to: VirusGuard




No I did not play the video because I have seen far too many library pictures of reports about Russian tanks being found in the wrong place at the wrong time and yes I now know these were not Russians.


Well I already knew you didn't so nothing new there.

And I never did say that these were Russian soldiers, but all I did was remark how well these supposed self defense forces were armed and dressed.

You are the one who keeps bringing up Russian tanks and the Ukraine soldier in the APC, which again had nothing to do with my post.

And now you know more than people who are experts at pretty much anything involving the military?


For expert observers, the mysterious fighters’ cover is blown.

The military commander of NATO, U.S. Gen. Philip Breedlove, enumerated on his official blog why he — and the leaders of the U.S., France, Britain and Germany — believed the men could only be Russian special forces.

As well as their “tell-tale military training and equipment” and team tactics, they handled their rifles like pros with the muzzles pointed down and the fingers off the triggers when not in combat mode, he wrote.

Their “coordinated use of tear gas and stun grenades” during the takeover of Ukrainian public buildings were well beyond the abilities of a nascent militia, as was their discipline at checkpoints.

“Finally, the weapons and equipment they carry are primarily Russian army issue. This is not the kind of equipment that civilians would be likely to be able to get their hands on in large numbers,” Breedlove said.

Olexiy Melnyk, a military expert in Kiev’s Razumovka Center, agreed.

“These green men look very much like those who were at work in Crimea and yet again Vladimir Putin doesn’t acknowledge there are Russians,” he said.

Putin had long denied that the Russian military was deployed in Crimea — but on Thursday he reversed course to admit that in fact Russian Army units had been there “behind the Crimean self-defense forces” on a mission to “protect” the local population.


www.japantimes.co.jp...



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 11:41 AM
link   

originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: stumason



but pure (distilled) water such as they use on the ISS or found in cooling systems for CPU's for example, is not conductive.


So it does not conduct electric does it now (Who said anything about distilled water anyway)


I mentioned distilled because they are not using tap water on the ISS or in fact any other spacecraft - jeebus..

And you produce a "yahoo answers" quote about it's electrical properties? For all intents and purposes, distilled/pure water is non-conductive, hence why it can be safely used inside a modern PC as a coolant.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Drinking distilled water kills you over time, on the ISS or not


No, it doesn't.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Sorry too far off topic but i felt "You're just making stuff up now to fit your argument" needed an answer


Hahaha, classic.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Taps are already in place on cables under the sea, no sat's then this is plan 'B' and yes they do have a plan "C" using sonic booms that travel through the center of the earth but the bandwidth is like 0.5k or mega slow


I'll just have to take your word on it, but it certainly seems your reading a little bit too much Tom Clancy...



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 01:24 PM
link   



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 01:24 PM
link   

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: stumason



but pure (distilled) water such as they use on the ISS or found in cooling systems for CPU's for example, is not conductive.


So it does not conduct electric does it now (Who said anything about distilled water anyway)


I mentioned distilled because they are not using tap water on the ISS or in fact any other spacecraft - jeebus..

And you produce a "yahoo answers" quote about it's electrical properties? For all intents and purposes, distilled/pure water is non-conductive, hence why it can be safely used inside a modern PC as a coolant.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Drinking distilled water kills you over time, on the ISS or not


No, it doesn't.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Sorry too far off topic but i felt "You're just making stuff up now to fit your argument" needed an answer


Hahaha, classic.


originally posted by: VirusGuard
Taps are already in place on cables under the sea, no sat's then this is plan 'B' and yes they do have a plan "C" using sonic booms that travel through the center of the earth but the bandwidth is like 0.5k or mega slow


I'll just have to take your word on it, but it certainly seems your reading a little bit too much Tom Clancy...


I know this is off topic but i see you to arguing your both right. Distilled water has very low conductivity because the distillation process removes the ions from the water.But theres always a but isnt there it can and will conduct electricity at high voltages. so the reason i said you're both right is its just a matter of how much energy you use.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 01:31 PM
link   

originally posted by: ProfessorT


The guy has an impressive resume he gets around alot i find it hard to believe that people are still arguing if Russia has boots on the ground didnt Ukraine actually capture some people with an airborne unit i thought i saw documents they took. But even that aside Putin admitted Russian troops participated in Crimeas annexation if you will. And we see the same people in eastern Ukraine so unless Putin disbanded their unit and let them keep their stuff its obvious they still work for Russia.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:23 PM
link   
.......
edit on 21-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:25 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: VirusGuard




The USA can no longer build a mobile phone without parts from China so I don't swallow that cop out.



And you can show me a country that does?

It's called cheap labor, something Russia knows all about.


The US and Japan have developed / refined techniques that allow them access to rare earth elements. That effort was pushed when china decided to start acting like Russia when it came to those resources.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:30 PM
link   

originally posted by: [post=17824502]VirusGuard
And lost the race to orbit the earth with a satellite but it reminds me of the pen NASA developed to take into space that cost $1m to develop when Russia simply used a $0.10 pencil.


You should spend more time researching and less time acting like you know something.

The NASA story about developing a pen is false and never happened.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:40 PM
link   

originally posted by: Talliostro
So have you finished the "who has the bigges d****" contest?
Can we discuss the topic at hand or is this the "US has X and Russia has Y therefore they are best" thread?!


Actually its a consistent push by some to derail the thread when evidence is provided that does not support the Russian story.

As an example people constantly hold the position Russia never invaded Ukraine nor do they have forces on the ground in E. Ukraine / S. Ukraine. When evidence comes out that Russia does in fact have forces there, the group who kept demanding proof goes on a tangent on issues that are not relevant to the discussion.

Its a method to bury the facts under pages of pointless who has the bigger E-Peen discussion. The same occurred with Crimea and Russian forces there. They fought tooth and nail stating Russian forces were not the no insignia people. Putin destroyed their position on that when he announced they were.

What we are seeing is people wanting to desperately believe Putin is the good guy in all of this and that its somehow everyone else's fault this occurred. The more info that comes out implicating Russia in all of this the more we se some of the Russian supporters backing off comments / positions they made. We seem to be down to a core group of a few people who still are drinking Putin's cool aid.


With the announcement of sham elections set for May 11th, I would look for Russia to pull another Crimea. Russia cannot allow a referendum to take place at the same time as the Ukraine Presidential elections. IF Russia allowed that, Kiev would be overseeing the election and the results. In that instance Russia can't rig the elections like they did in Crimea to get the outcome they wanted.

The closer we get to that election date, the more you will see Russia ramping up their propaganda in an effort to justify further invasions of Ukraine.

The problem Putin has, in addition to some of the cool aid drinkers, is the fact the world is not buying into Russia's bs, no matter how deep Russia piles that bs. Russia thinks it can report whatever it wants while expecting people to accept the information without question.

That mindset is gone and won't be coming back, just like the Soviet Union.



posted on Apr, 21 2014 @ 02:46 PM
link   
a reply to: VirusGuard

Items in orbit are travelling around 500 up to 23k mph. Take 2 objects travelling at different speeds, coupled with the temperature and lack of atmosphere to create drag and you can have a spec of dust / paint penetrate outer layers. Depending on the area hit, explosive decompression / severe compromising of structural integrity can, and has in the past, occurred.

Can we go back to Russian and their invasion of Ukraine now?


edit on 21-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
367
<< 396  397  398    400  401  402 >>

log in

join