Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

Russia just violated the open skies treaty -

Flying Blind - Russia Blocks U.S. from Treaty-Approved Spy Flights

The Russian government this week canceled a planned U.S. surveillance flight over Russian territory in a bid to limit spying on massed troops facing off against Ukraine and Eastern Europe, according to U.S. officials.

The overflight mission was scheduled for April 14 to April 16 under the 1992 Open Skies Treaty, but Russia’s government notified the State Department 72 hours before the scheduled flight that it would not be permitted.

The cancelation is unusual because the sole reason for putting off such treaty-approve surveillance is flight safety, such as bad weather.

Until this week, the United States and other European allies who are a party to the 34-nation treaty were conducting weekly overflights above Russia during the past month.

The Russian cancelation of the flight comes amid heightened tensions between Russia and the West over the crisis in Ukraine, where Russian troops militarily annexed the Crimean peninsula last month and continue to foment pro-Russian unrest in the eastern part of the country.

Under the Open Skies Treaty, the sole permitted reason for canceling such overflights is flight safety and U.S. officials said that was not the reason for the Russians’ action.

“They’re getting ready to do something [to Ukraine] and they don’t want us looking,” said one official familiar with the canceled flight.

On treaties with nations -

On NATO enlargement, Putin issued a threatening rebuke to any plans by the alliance to extend eastward.

“We have no fear—I do not have and no one else should have this either,” Putin said. “Yet we have to bear the realities in mind.”

Instead of extending NATO, Putin said he favors bilateral security treaties but was told by the West “that is none of your business” and that each nation has the right to choose its own security agreements.

Click link for remainder of article.

In this one area, I find Russia's response hypocritical. They refuse to discuss military operations inside their nation, which is fine, yet demand to know what's occurring in NATO nations. They then get upset when they are told its not their concern. Who a nation has foreign relations with is up to that nation.

Russia told Ukraine, who is also a signatory, that they could do some over flights of the border. It has been discussed in this and a few other Ukraine threads. The part people overlooked was the time frame. While Russia offered it, they reserved the right to determine the time / place the flights would take place.

Now they have done it a second time. If Russia is acting in good faith then why deny the flights?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Russia just violated the open skies treaty -

Flying Blind - Russia Blocks U.S. from Treaty-Approved Spy Flights

The Russian government this week canceled a planned U.S. surveillance flight over Russian territory in a bid to limit spying on massed troops facing off against Ukraine and Eastern Europe, according to U.S. officials.

The overflight mission was scheduled for April 14 to April 16 under the 1992 Open Skies Treaty, but Russia’s government notified the State Department 72 hours before the scheduled flight that it would not be permitted.

The cancelation is unusual because the sole reason for putting off such treaty-approve surveillance is flight safety, such as bad weather.

Until this week, the United States and other European allies who are a party to the 34-nation treaty were conducting weekly overflights above Russia during the past month.

The Russian cancelation of the flight comes amid heightened tensions between Russia and the West over the crisis in Ukraine, where Russian troops militarily annexed the Crimean peninsula last month and continue to foment pro-Russian unrest in the eastern part of the country.

Under the Open Skies Treaty, the sole permitted reason for canceling such overflights is flight safety and U.S. officials said that was not the reason for the Russians’ action.

“They’re getting ready to do something [to Ukraine] and they don’t want us looking,” said one official familiar with the canceled flight.

On treaties with nations -

On NATO enlargement, Putin issued a threatening rebuke to any plans by the alliance to extend eastward.

“We have no fear—I do not have and no one else should have this either,” Putin said. “Yet we have to bear the realities in mind.”

Instead of extending NATO, Putin said he favors bilateral security treaties but was told by the West “that is none of your business” and that each nation has the right to choose its own security agreements.

Click link for remainder of article.

In this one area, I find Russia's response hypocritical. They refuse to discuss military operations inside their nation, which is fine, yet demand to know what's occurring in NATO nations. They then get upset when they are told its not their concern. Who a nation has foreign relations with is up to that nation.

Russia told Ukraine, who is also a signatory, that they could do some over flights of the border. It has been discussed in this and a few other Ukraine threads. The part people overlooked was the time frame. While Russia offered it, they reserved the right to determine the time / place the flights would take place.

Now they have done it a second time. If Russia is acting in good faith then why deny the flights?

Do you know i read an article that talks about why Americans were so upset by this. It was actually funny Americans as a general rule considered Russia a friend and why not we bailed them out of trouble gave them lots of money to get them through there financial crises and rebuild the country. Prior to this there was a study that over 70 pervent of Americans saw Putin and Russia as a friend. This was the whole russian reset thing remember the button gaf by Hillary . Any way its totally flipped now 67 percent see Russia as a threat to the US . Well in the article they said its like having your dog bite you heres your best friend trying to take your hand off. So aparently Putin didnt think of the long term effects of this now NATO goes back to unlimited budgets from the west more members join all because hes creating fear just like the old Soviets.

Funny the more things change the more they stay the same.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Ah, delighted to hear someone sound out such a statement.


True. Lavrov is a diplomat, whereas Putin is a politician. Lavrov says harsh thing in neutral terms and Putin just lays it out in his usual manner - for his electorate. I can say that kanzler A.Merkel does pretty much the same when she speaks in front of the German Bundestaag and when she adresses the EU Committee(seeing that the German Foreign Secretary is...how to put it mildly...out of the picture. Merely a clerk.).

BTW, strangely, I realized that the news in Russia Today are so well processed and politically refined, that even to me, a person used to ordinary Russian news, it looked like choice propaganda. I guess, the reason to have RT is because the US have Fox News and CNN. Propaganda VS Propaganda. Rock-paper-scissors. A game in which we have a tie(not really, though. The West has much more resources). Which is good. Like you said. A, B, C.

Every nation has their share of fools believing silly lies about their geopolitical rivals. Those A's and B's. From a certain point of view it looks as if those who seek the truth are the only one united people, a worldwide nation, dare say. So, do we assume now that globalization has bees achieved after all? 8-) I feel defeated already. By uniting against the concept of NWO, globalization etc., we became so well informed on numerous matters in different areas of our lives, and our minds became so well-trained at philtering the true course of events, that we now reside in an somewhat similar information realm.
Funny, but the only difference between the Christian and Islamic interpretaion of, basically, GOD and religion, is THE STORY, the A's and B's. Like in our case. But oh so much conflict and blood in between.

In short, I give you my respect. Haven't heard such a statement for quite a while. IMO, worth to be carved in stone and placed on town squares as a reminder to all.

a reply to: dragonridr

Geopolitical views say that for next 25 years Russia will be more busy in economic, commerce and political arrangements with the Asian powers and blocks.

That makes sense too as West is spent up, beyond broke, heavily indebted, morally corrupt and spiritually non-complaint.

Russia will find better friendships and appreciations in the Eastern spheres and get long lasting happiness.

From the western directions, only invasions, murders, contempt, and exploitation came.

Enough is enough !!

a reply to: Xcathdra

the two states-parties have a total of eight hours after submission of the original flight plan to agree on changes, if they fail, the flight can be cancelled.

Spy flights can be cancelled.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

Geopolitical views say that for next 25 years Russia will be more busy in economic, commerce and political arrangements with the Asian powers and blocks.

That makes sense too as West is spent up, beyond broke, heavily indebted, morally corrupt and spiritually non-complaint.

Russia will find better friendships and appreciations in the Eastern spheres and get long lasting happiness.

From the western directions, only invasions, murders, contempt, and exploitation came.

Enough is enough !!

I dont think Russia going to cozy up next to China i spent a year and a half in Beijing and they dont like Russians still holding a grudge and the Chinese will take great pleasure in being able to dominate Russia. They still believe alot of therre territory is illegally held by Russia and China is trying to get back what they consider theirs. China feels like it was raped and well to some extent it was i think your going to find china wi l look for every opertunity to screw over Russia without looking like thats what they're doing.There loving the fact Russia is in trouble all they have to do is set back and watch the carnage. They could have defended Russia countless times over this instead the pay the humanitarian saying every country has the right toself determination and other countries shouldnt be involved. Theres a reason behind this it keeps russia out of the China sea. Ill have to say beyond a doubt China plays the long game they think ahead. Having Russia dependent on them for their survival is a win win. Watch come back and read this thread in a year heres a prediction. China will string along Russia on a pipeline for gas and wont build it. Theyll buy shipments but small amounts they have massive investments in south america and Africa they bought mineral rights like you wouldnt believe.

Now the reason for this is they will want the Russian economy to fail beauty of it they can get Russia completely out of asian politics and they are the only power in Asia. Even they know the US is overextending itself trying to play in Asia.Theyll eventually find a way to get there land back as well i promise you. I think Putin having to put all his eggs in one basket just guaranteed Russia to become a third world country in less than a decade.

originally posted by: SurrenderingAmerica
a reply to: Xcathdra

the two states-parties have a total of eight hours after submission of the original flight plan to agree on changes, if they fail, the flight can be cancelled.

Spy flights can be cancelled.

Only for safety conditions. In this case the reason Russia gave was weather - which as noted in the report its clear / partly cloudy. The reason given also exceeded the time frame as well.

a reply to: dragonridr

There loving the fact Russia is in trouble all they have to do is set back and watch the carnage.

Chinese are not idiots. They know who will be next once Russia is spent up fighting war with 5-10x bigger NATO.

Regarding land dispute, why don't we hear about it so much? We hear more about their dispute with Taiwan and others regarding this or that island.

Chinese like to play low profile in global geopolitics. However, despite Trillions of business given by the West to Chinese, the chinks have much more hostility and distrust towards the west than with the Russians.

The biggest danger to Russia is its "corruption culture". Another problem is love for the darling Vodki. Majority of big civilizations/powers in the past have fallen not because of external variables but because of internal misgivings.

Look at USA today vrs say of 1960s or 1980s. One can easily find that any areas of decline were a direct result of internal policies and mistakes. No external variable played a role that slid the US several rungs down the "wellness" ladder.

Is it just me or ukraine.inagist.com... is down ?? Cyber-attack ? Server problem ?

LE: The search function gives results, but the direct link doesn't seem to work anymore.

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

There loving the fact Russia is in trouble all they have to do is set back and watch the carnage.

Chinese are not idiots. They know who will be next once Russia is spent up fighting war with 5-10x bigger NATO.

Regarding land dispute, why don't we hear about it so much? We hear more about their dispute with Taiwan and others regarding this or that island.

Chinese like to play low profile in global geopolitics. However, despite Trillions of business given by the West to Chinese, the chinks have much more hostility and distrust towards the west than with the Russians.

The biggest danger to Russia is its "corruption culture". Another problem is love for the darling Vodki. Majority of big civilizations/powers in the past have fallen not because of external variables but because of internal misgivings.

Look at USA today vrs say of 1960s or 1980s. One can easily find that any areas of decline were a direct result of internal policies and mistakes. No external variable played a role that slid the US several rungs down the "wellness" ladder.

The reason why you dont here about it in the wext is well we really dont care. Taiwan is needed for world economy siberia isnt . Most people dont even realize Russia and China had a war to lazy to look it up but it was late 60s early 70s over land.I didnt know this until i went there but anyway they haven't forgot. The west in general doesnt understand whats going on in China but right now there starting what they call the “great rejuvenation of the Chinese nation.” its goal is to return everything back to china they lost. You have to realize China was actually the dominant nation in the world for thousands of years. Any way as far as Russia goes there not going to get a warm welcome they will string them along wat undervalue there gas supplies and gloat the whole time.

So Russia turning to China is the worst move he could make if Putin was smart hed look to india as a major trade partner. The benifits for both would be tremendous. Any way enough side talk we strayed off topic sort of.

Ministry of Defence, Ukraine, FB Page

An Russian army attack group is building up near the Ukrainian border – Tymchuk According to the group "Information Resistance", a Russian army attack group is formed in the Russian regions near the Ukrainian border. This was reported by Mr Dmitry Tymchuk, the Director of the Center for Political -Military Studies, on his Facebook page. In particular, he said that in the areas across the border from Kharkiv, Chernihiv and Sumy regions of Ukraine, the battalion tactical group (BTG) is formed in the proximity to the Ukrainian state border. "Paratroopers units and Special Forces of the Russian General Staff have been identified as part of the BTG. At the same time, joint exercises of Belarusian Special Operation Forces and the Russian airborne units began in Belarus ," - said Tymchuk.

CNN interview of Russian Duma member

Now they openly say they will invade if government in Kiev uses military force against protestors, which they are.

And pro Russians now want the government in Kiev to step down.

National Republic of Donetsk speaker says they will not leave any buildings until the "illegal" government in Kiev resigns

And:

Yatseniuk "we don't have any great expectations concerning the (Geneva) announcements"

On the ground:

Effect of #Geneva in #Sloviansk? Many Russia flags changed to 'Donetsk Republic', same guys, more military on streets pic.twitter.com/ZbXH9BIxq7

Kharkiv today many "religious" Russians athletic (titushki) types have arrived at the the train station espreso.tv/news/2014/04/1… |EMPR News

#Kharkiv separatists gather outside of a mental hospital. According to their info their leader is kept inside. @itsector |EMPR News

Ukraine parliament faction leaders remain split over Russian language status, amnesty for east Ukraine protesters.

The leaders of Ukrainian parliamentary factions have so far been unable to reach an agreement concerning the text of a memorandum pledging a peaceful settlement in eastern Ukraine, Batkivschyna faction deputy chairman Serhiy Sobolev has said.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

Geopolitical views say that for next 25 years Russia will be more busy in economic, commerce and political arrangements with the Asian powers and blocks.

That makes sense too as West is spent up, beyond broke, heavily indebted, morally corrupt and spiritually non-complaint.

Russia will find better friendships and appreciations in the Eastern spheres and get long lasting happiness.

From the western directions, only invasions, murders, contempt, and exploitation came.

Enough is enough !!

I dont think Russia going to cozy up next to China i spent a year and a half in Beijing and they dont like Russians still holding a grudge and the Chinese will take great pleasure in being able to dominate Russia. They still believe alot of therre territory is illegally held by Russia and China is trying to get back what they consider theirs. China feels like it was raped and well to some extent it was i think your going to find china wi l look for every opertunity to screw over Russia without looking like thats what they're doing.There loving the fact Russia is in trouble all they have to do is set back and watch the carnage.

Wow, you seem to be speaking for the 1.5 billion People. So guess that's why Russians built a direct rail road line to China, why China held an official Panda and Bear friendship year, and oh, how about all these facts;

english.peopledaily.com.cn...

africa.chinadaily.com.cn...

Just comparing total hours of corporate product support allocated by Chinese companies to US verses Russia, the difference is staggering.

The reports coming out of Eastern Ukraine about Jews being forced to 'register' are both concerning and truly shocking. Is Vladimir Putin trying to recreate what happened when Adolf Hitler was around? It certainly looks like he is. Absolutely disgusting. The Ukrainian government are toothless and thus far they haven't been able to defend themselves and their citizens. In light of recent events they should request mutual military aid from NATO.

Report separatists have taken city hall in Avdeevka Donetsk oblast. Looks like Geneva accord didn't do too much

Looks like separatists didn't get the message. TV tower in Izum near Sloyansk being stormed by Putin faithful

Armed men seized broadcast tower in #Kramatorsk once again. No law enforcers arrived to counteract yet. ostro.org |EMPR News

RT @RT_com #TYMOSHENKO: Ultimatum for #Russia is Thursday. If Geneva obligations not met, measures will be taken to remove occupants from #Ukraine 26 mins ago 42 retweets | 9 replies

Free Ukraine @Ukrainolution In the Siversk arrived armed separatists on BMD goo.gl/byu0Ad pic.twitter.com/oUBxdRe94v 9 mins ago 3 retweets | 2 replies

appointed by #Moscow "head" of #Crimea #Aksenov: his troops will not be sent to #Donetsk. Yet. But troops are ready to go to Donetsk anytime

originally posted by: ProfessorT
The reports coming out of Eastern Ukraine about Jews being forced to 'register' are both concerning and truly shocking. Is Vladimir Putin trying to recreate what happened when Adolf Hitler was around? It certainly looks like he is. Absolutely disgusting. The Ukrainian government are toothless and thus far they haven't been able to defend themselves and their citizens. In light of recent events they should request mutual military aid from NATO.

Guess that one went right over your head huh?
Clicky
Nice to see you warmongers are still clutching at straws.

Ukraine Reporter @StateOfUkraine #Kramatorsk: after fight, armored vehicles were taken from pro-#Kremlin forces. #Ukraine paratroopers shoot but aim for legs, no deaths. 4 mins ago 10 retweets |