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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 03:43 PM
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originally posted by: BobAthome
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


"I wouldn't confuse the American government with that of the American people. "

actually the Government of the American people, is ,,By the People, Of the People, For the People.

so just what are ordinary people supposed too believe?


That often times it is possible for the people to not completely agree with its government. It also means that just because our government takes a position does not mean the American people cannot get them to change their minds. The American people would not allow our government to abandon Canada.




posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 03:50 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

Russia's involvement is admitted by Putin. To stir the pot to the point of "pro Russians" arming themselves and attacking / seizing government buildings only to warn Ukraine to not use force to subdue the "protestors".

This is the part that confuses me. Its not the cold war anymore so why does Putin think the propaganda they push is going to be accepted and believed?


Do you believe the propaganda and misinformation coming out of our government/media regarding Ukraine?



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard


and then you repeat
"BREAKING: #Obama: We are preparing additional sanctions against Russia"

I think you answered you own question.

Mr Putin looks like a statesman, needs no scripts unlike banker puppet Obama who needs to read his scripts every five seconds but you do know that sanctions are an act of war so don't be too upset if the gloves come off or mind if people in Europe (who have no say anyway) openly say that they would like to sit this one out.

"preparing additional sanctions"

They would have disused this weeks ago, you will know the better man if this turns out to be yet another one of them "Putin's grandmother cannot come to Disney" type of sanctions

I won't get into the rights and wrongs over the Georgia conflict (the EU settled that one) but you do know it only took Putin's scrap metal tanks about a day to sweep in and clear the ground so do watch out for that left hook if you want to fight him.


No Putin isnt insane he knows hed loose a direct conflict with NATO. As far as sanctions this time they are to be aimed at financial institutions its a form of blocking them out of the world market. They already did it to one bank because it was owned by a person on the list of sanctions. It effectively made them a local bank overnight. Many people switched banks because there cards stopped working. This is why Russia threatened to go to th WTO about the sanctions. If it was all there banks the entire economy goes to cash only and as the ruble continues to drop rich russians will continue to try to hide there money in foreign currencies like the US dollar its already started.

Now sanctions is not an act of war well maybe in your head but it happens all the time from countries all over the world. Countries have the right to decide who they will and wont do business with. What it would mean to Russia is it closes off the european and middle east markets. Putin will look to his eurasia pact which right now is shacky but he might pull it off. I have serious doubt China will agree they have there own ideas. There looking towards africa for there needs buying huge reserves there of nat gas oil and other minerals.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 03:51 PM
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originally posted by: BobAthome
actually the Government of the American people, is ,,By the People, Of the People, For the People.


That sounds like something that pal-pot bloke said from China to me.

Why if that's true don't you vote yourselves cars like we have in Europe that can do 70mpg plus or do "The People" like the police state as it is.

I read today that a woman went to Disney and was told to cover up her cleavage and it was not like she was a stunning model in a swim suite or anything so I don't think she or her husband and kids felt like they were "Of the People"

Too me, yes i could be wrong but Russia was heading in the right direction but i sure know that the USA is going in the wrong direction.

Yeah loved the picture

edit on 17-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: I think i broke ATS its all gone cosmic with a bright background



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard


and then you repeat
"BREAKING: #Obama: We are preparing additional sanctions against Russia"

I think you answered you own question.

Not at all... It has been confirmed time and again Russia is messing internally with Ukraine, even though they claim they are not. They claimed they had no troops in Crimea and low and behold Putin admits the green men were Russian troops.

Just because talks are being held and an agreement might have been reached does not mean its the end of it. Russia has to show action instead of just lip service. Secondly the west / EU are the ones who prepped the new sanctions. During the UN meeting the rep from France stated more sanctions will occur if Russia does not do more to help resolve the situation.





originally posted by: VirusGuard
Mr Putin looks like a statesman, needs no scripts unlike banker puppet Obama who needs to read his scripts every five seconds but you do know that sanctions are an act of war so don't be too upset if the gloves come off or mind if people in Europe (who have no say anyway) openly say that they would like to sit this one out.

and Margaret Thatcher was female.. I still would not want to cross her. Argentina learned their lesson the hard way. Or are we to judge people based on what they look like / how they speak?

Sanctions are not an act of war...

An Embargo would be an act of war, specifically what Russia did before they illegally annexed Crimea. Since Russia has sanctions those countries who sanctioned them does that allow those countries to respond militarily to Russian action?

I mean, you are saying its an act of war? Or does it only apply one way with Russia?




originally posted by: VirusGuard
"preparing additional sanctions"

They would have disused this weeks ago, you will know the better man if this turns out to be yet another one of them "Putin's grandmother cannot come to Disney" type of sanctions

Where have you been? They did discuss this weeks ago. Its been mentioned in the news several times a day over the last few weeks. Its been discussed on this site the last few weeks.

The sanctions currently target members of the Russian / Crimean government. The next round of sanctions will target parts of the economy. The first 2 rounds were done in a manner to get Russia to understand there is still time to resolve the situation before we hit the point of no return.





originally posted by: VirusGuard
I won't get into the rights and wrongs over the Georgia conflict (the EU settled that one) but you do know it only took Putin's scrap metal tanks about a day to sweep in and clear the ground so do watch out for that left hook if you want to fight him.

Then why did you bring it up? When vlad has 10k tanks and Georgia only has 3.... Since you brought it up what we saw in Crimea was the same game plan used in Georgia / South Ossetia.

You know.. because Georgia was such a threat to Russian National Security.


also on the off chance you missed it the Geneva agreement calls on Russia to act. It does not require Ukraine to stand down their forces in the South and East.
edit on 17-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 04:00 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: BobAthome
reply to post by Xcathdra
 


"I wouldn't confuse the American government with that of the American people. "

actually the Government of the American people, is ,,By the People, Of the People, For the People.

so just what are ordinary people supposed too believe?


That often times it is possible for the people to not completely agree with its government. It also means that just because our government takes a position does not mean the American people cannot get them to change their minds. The American people would not allow our government to abandon Canada.


Yeah your right Canadians and the US will always be close they need somewhere to get out of the cold lol.

Now back to the thread i saw this and it made me wonder if the protestors hanging around in the maiden scares eastern Ukraine? Think they see this on the news they see thugs running around they dont realize that life in Kiev has moved on.Heres what i mean you know russian television has been showing the violence in maiden non stop and im thinking eastern Ukrainians think its still going on. They believe thugs are beating people up on the streets they think Kiev is out of control and people are getting hurt or worse. This is essentially the image problem Kiev has and Russia played up.



Separatists occupying a local government building in the city of Donetsk said they would not leave until supporters of Ukraine's new government quit their camp around Kiev's main square, known as the Maidan.

Asked how his group will react to the accord in Geneva under which illegal occupations of buildings and squares must end, Alexander Zakharchenko, a protest leader inside the Donetsk regional government building, told Reuters by telephone:

"If it means all squares and public buildings, then I guess it should start with the Maidan in Kiev. We'll see what they do there before we make our decision here."



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 04:47 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

I said "I think you answered you own question" you quoted me and went on to talk about something else ?

You quoted "preparing additional sanctions" and it was me that told you that this would had been done weeks ago yet you wrap me as if I made the statement so I am lost ?

You said "are we to judge people based on what they look like" as if I questioned how Obama looked when I spoke about him reading from a script and the you bring up Mrs "T", The Iron Lady who got the name from Russia (Was an insult but she turned that around) well she didn't need scripts all the time and a plug in her ear, she was like Mr Putin, shoots from the hip and in no way does Mr Obama measure up to any of these two but I will say he's better than Kerry.

You sound like the USA has the power to dictate to Russia what, when and how to do what but I'm not sure Mr Putin gives a rats ass for the hot air else he would not have drawn a line in the sand.

These brave Ukraine troops beat up two female news reporters yesterday, they were female because men between the ages of 16 and 60 are not allowed across the border and we could argue that none western puppet states can send in reporters and we must keep everyone else out because they all tell lies but to me it speaks volumes about who's in the right and who's in the wrong.

96% of the vote in the Crimea ? This is a number that speaks for itself so yes I can see why they don't want any voting in the Ukraine and are trying to force the population to love a nazi having spent $4bn in the process but can you please send more so they can pay the gas bill to Russia or did Ron Paul pluck that number out the air, i don't know.

We both agree that this is going to come to blows (well i think we do) so maybe we should talk about how this truffle/war might turn out given the stakes, like life on earth



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: Xcathdra

so I am lost ?



Apparently we both are. I took your post as something else entirely that I don't think was the intent.

Can we try again?

My apologies.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:00 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes no trouble, you just went up in my book



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:07 PM
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originally posted by: WCmutant

originally posted by: Xcathdra

Russia's involvement is admitted by Putin. To stir the pot to the point of "pro Russians" arming themselves and attacking / seizing government buildings only to warn Ukraine to not use force to subdue the "protestors".

This is the part that confuses me. Its not the cold war anymore so why does Putin think the propaganda they push is going to be accepted and believed?


Do you believe the propaganda and misinformation coming out of our government/media regarding Ukraine?


It depends on what it is in regards to and what my education / knowledge is on the topic. I try to research claims made by governments and people.

In this particular situation I have been trying to use more Russian media when it comes to the Russian position. Like during the meeting in Geneva Lavrov was laying out the Russian position however back in Moscow Putin was making statements that were in complete contradiction to what Lavrov was stating.

Its one of the main reasons I nag people about providing links to sources the information comes from so we all can view it for ourselves. There is 3 sides to every situation -

Side A
Side B
and Side C - the truth which is somewhere in the middle.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:08 PM
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a reply to: VirusGuard

You do realize the UN report talked about the voter fraud in the Crimea vote dont you?

The delegation met with sources who claimed that there had been alleged cases of non-Ukrainian citizens participating in the referendum as well as individuals voting numerous times in different locations ... Preliminary findings, based on publicly available information as well as reports from civil society representatives in Crimea, suggest that the referendum on March 16 raised a number of concerns in terms of respect for human rights.

The report also found the intimidating climate in Crimea at the time of the referendum seriously calls into question the legitimacy of the vote.

Than there was this as well here this was caught on tape.



Or this where he explains the numbers reported dont match reality.



So just tell the truth Russia annexed the area had nothing to do with the votes. The votes were predetermined anyway they were already making plans before the vote was even held. In fact there law makers went to Russia to discuss the changes before the vote. I guessin Russia this is a legal vote but the rest of the world not so much.

Though i will say there are Russians getting smart to Putins ballot stuffing they protested his last election they ended up in jail for it but at least they spoke out.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:09 PM
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originally posted by: VirusGuard
a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes no trouble, you just went up in my book



Thank you - I appreciate it. I am getting ready to head out for a bit. If its alright with you I will respond when I get back. I wanna make sure I understand it this time around and go from there.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Yes fine and i did post something half thinking it would hit trouble, it did and i lost it now but look forwards to having a chat another time.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:45 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

forgive me but I seem to remember serious voter fraud allegation over bush and you might swing to win votes if the running was 50/50 (not that it matters in the USA) but you don't need to swing it to 96%

An old granny finding a pen does not work at a polling station does not mean wide spread fraud and you forget about outside international observers that monitor votes the world over so if they were on the take then they are on the takes everywhere.

I read that little Kim from north Korea executes even family members using flame throwers (Honest) and only has a dozen or so nukes unlike Russia who has hundreds so why have we not gone after him.

Could it be we are scared ?

Could it just be that everyone knows that China would get involved.

Well so far all that has happened is we have pushed China and Russia closer together and possibly disabled Europe if the gas gets cut off.

All these threats towards Russia from the usual alliance of France, England and the USA don't seem to be working so we can back off to fight another day or stake our lives on some little bit of green countryside miles away that never belonged to us in the first place, not that we the people would ever profit from any booty.

And tell your dragon to stop smoking, it's bad for his health but it won't kill you like sucking on a cars exhaust would in two minutes or less.







edit on 17-4-2014 by VirusGuard because: My daddy toe twitched and hit the wrong key for the tenth time



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by AliceBleachWhite
 


Any links to the news and statements would be appreciated, because regarding the current scale of this *itstorm, I wouldn't be surprised to find people redirected to sites, where certain news articles are edited. There are ways, aren't there? Let it run for 2-3 hours and wrap it up without a trace. 0,1% checks the links. The sane minority, to whom nobody ever listens to, as usual. Result - the masses will be running around, shouting "The Russians are coming? America, do something." Hah! NATO bases surrounding Russia's borders and it's the Russians that are coming...lol...I'm already thinking up hilarious sketches.
Here's one.
Group of people, armed with molotovs, small firearms, capture government buildings, kill around 10 cops(only on Maidan), injure over 350 (75 with gunshots), pillage military bases and police stations for weapons, seizing hundrend of thousands of the former, including RPGs and Igla AIMs(nice, huh?) and, ultimately, take control over a WHOLE country. We call them protestors. (Group 1)
Now there's another group, which does MOSTLY THE SAME, except it doesn't kill cops or burn down government buildings...and we call them terrorists. (Group 2)
So now is Group 1 sending tanks to deal with Group 2, saying that they should seize their protests immediately, because that's bad and un-patriotic(new Ukranian laws, imposed by Group 1 say 3 years of prison for protesting against the current regime). Settling a civil unrest, they call it...well, a legitimate president didn't dare to do what the illegitimate New Power is doing now. Justice? Ah, throw it out of the window. Truth? Hell with it too.
Is that an actual article? Rly? Russia ready to wage war on Ukraine? There are no such news in the official Russian press, although the yellow press IS littered with articles like that. Here's one "Flying .enis hits elderly woman on the back of the head". Jeeez...is this really happening? Is it time for people to watch out for flying .icks? Maybe, I should buy a helmet for protection?
So do keep calm.
And let's be real here. Russia's interests will not go further than Crimea. Donbass...well, let's say Russia will have to step up to it's talk about "protecting Russian citizens", as it said in Crimea(wouldn't US do the same? We do remember history, don't we?), but that's all it will do. After the people of Donbass hold the referendum, it will most likely back off and play Big brother for Donbass, until the referendum issue get's hotter for countries like Spain, Italy, GB et.c. They too have whole regions wanting to separate. Sooner or later cases like Kosovo, Mayotte, Puerto-Rico...Hawaii...will be studied again. And what's IMO hilarious is that the US already did what they are accusing Russia of. They say that Crimea is a different case, but is it? And how will Donbass be different? Divorce is divorce. Kosovo was a mistake all along. Bu it was legitimized by most European countries and the US. Set the rules - play by the rules.
And hey, let's laugh some more. Afganistan. 1980-s USSR comes in to kick Taliban out. US is enraged and floods Taliban with high-tech weapons. Under pressure thor the international community(Gorbachev era), USSR leaves Afg. 20 years later...guess what? US comes in and fights same Taliban it had armed 20 years ago. Oh how ironic.
Isn't the world a big bloody mess? 8-)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

So you assume that people are so easily controlled? Then explain this : If Ukraine is burning, and it IS burning, why isn't Crimea? If, as you say, people have been "forced to vote" for separation "under gunpoint", if the elections have been set up, they have been "annexed" blah-blah-blah, why are they not revolting?
Because I see the same people stopping APC's with their bodies just a couple of hundred miles away. (People in Donbass are protesting despite the new Ukranian anti-protest laws btw. The penalty for "separationism" in Ukraine is up to 15 years in prison. You really should know that by now. Do you?)
Yet there are no incidents in Crimea, no major protests in Russia. Majority is for joining, rather than against. Even the Crimean tartars are quiet. Apparently, their leader is well aware that there is a republic called Tatarstan in Russia with a large tartar community and he discussed something with the tartar Imam and President. Something that satisfied him and most of his people. Eastern mentality has its peculiarities. They respect their leaders and their elders. But people did flee the region - undoubtedly. Not many, though. But they did. Were they forced? I don't think so. We would here about it if it were so, but all is pretty much quiet. Nothing of that sort on the internet.
Some 3000-4000 people did protest in Moscow, though. Not that popular now. I do say, Putin's ratings have hit the ceiling this time, so do take that into account. Quite a show there with Crimea. Not a drop of blood spilled; political goal achieved. + that move with Assad. Vile he may be, but actions do speak for themselves.
Jail? Protests? Hah! You say ended up in jail, I say Occupy wall street. At least they spoke out, lol. 8-) Democracy is long lost worldwide. It is a popular word, nevertheless. Some like it more then others. Doesn't mean that they have more of it, though. I can repeatedly say money, but it won't make me any richer.
You know, some of my friends went to Bolotnaya and to the white ribbon marches(I don't care that much for politics myself), but you wouldn't imagine their disappointment. And my disappointment in the concept. And a good concept it was. Many looked apon these protests as something...fresh, pure. But it's she same dirty politics. The realization comes later. But it always comes. Same will be with Ukraine. Mark my words. The opposition is as corrupt as those in charge. As it is with Ukraine. The only difference is that one side resembles and actually follows the predictable path of order; the other - the exciting path of chaos. While both are equally corrupt. Is corruption bad? Oh sure it is. But BBC says that corruption in the EU (IN THE EU) exceeds 120 bil. That's BBC.UK . The US? Yup. There too. Corruption exists everywhere but in different forms. After all, someone did forge those the SAP rating reports. And Haliburton subcontracts didn't take place in a parallel universe.
So please do some RESEARCh before posting something. Pardon, in your case, reposting the common opinion. Please. It would be a shame if ATS seized to be a place, where things are put to question is search of the more-or-so close truth.
Your CNN link is pretty mainstream info(thank god it's not FOX news) and your guy is just a guy. He's made his point, but he's just a guy in a suit. I got a suit, the brutal looks and can speak with a russian accent. I'll claim that I'm in Alaska with 400 000 troops and declaring it part of Russia and that I appoint myself president of Alaska. Some people would actually believe me. Some people go to the city hall asking to join the corp. Would you fall for that too? Would you really? To the point. I'd go for what the international observers had to say. All of them. Truth - it's in the middle. And this guy - he's just a guy in a suit on a show funded by G.Soros, Radio svoboda. C'mon, Jimbo, you can do better than that! Don't wait for the dust to settle. Because when it does, you'll be "uuuh, Y NO WMD in Iraq?". That is the next generation of fools you sure as hell don't want to be part of. Cause that's where it gets ugly. Do mind that Ukraine is so near Europe, that every explosion will tickle the hairs on it's bum and head on that bum is far more liberal than US thinks. And starting to be far more self-oriented. What if it finally turns East? For economic reasons too. Africa and the middle east are below, if you understand what I mean. And some politicians are doubting the need to look overseas for guidance. They are questioning the current course and gaining more and more support. Give them 10-15 years and that's where it gets interesting. You bet it will be a novo ordo. Good or bad - dunno. New.



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 08:30 PM
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What good would be the use for Ukrainians to hold on to territories where they face hostilities from ethinic Russians and rivalry with much more powerful Russia in terms of economics and culture.

The best would be for Ukraine to break up into East and West parts. East remains as independent country or join Russia, is a matter of democratic vote.

In any case........neither of the East or West Ukraine.....NEITHER......can join NATO or stage NATO military or related assets on their soil. Kind of like Finland's status which has worked just fine to maintain peace.

East or West Ukraine can join the EU if for the economic reasons.

This should work out best to solve the problem in that region.

It is all to do with NATO expansion. In 15-20 years, military technologies might be so different grade and generation that it would not matter if NATO should even exist as defending western European countries might be a matter of handling assets from 10,000 kms away or even from space etc.

Hence till that time, there should be buffer between two major European power blocks to maintain global peace.

If US still persists on Nato expansion upto the throats of the Russians, then we are talking nonsense brewing and common average global citizen suffering from all sorts of economic, political and military "punching games".

ps: Btw, anyone throwing the "Ukraine is soverign nation to make its own decisions" logic is an idiot who does not understand how the geopolitics works or should work with big power blocks.
edit on 17-4-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 09:00 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
What good would be the use for Ukrainians to hold on to territories where they face hostilities from ethinic Russians and rivalry with much more powerful Russia in terms of economics and culture.

The best would be for Ukraine to break up into East and West parts. East remains as independent country or join Russia, is a matter of democratic vote.

In any case........neither of the East or West Ukraine.....NEITHER......can join NATO or stage NATO military or related assets on their soil. Kind of like Finland's status which has worked just fine to maintain peace.

East or West Ukraine can join the EU if for the economic reasons.

This should work out best to solve the problem in that region.

It is all to do with NATO expansion. In 15-20 years, military technologies might be so different grade and generation that it would not matter if NATO should even exist as defending western European countries might be a matter of handling assets from 10,000 kms away or even from space etc.

Hence till that time, there should be buffer between two major European power blocks to maintain global peace.

If US still persists on Nato expansion upto the throats of the Russians, then we are talking nonsense brewing and common average global citizen suffering from all sorts of economic, political and military "punching games".

ps: Btw, anyone throwing the "Ukraine is soverign nation to make its own decisions" logic is an idiot who does not understand how the geopolitics works or should work with big power blocks.


Now i get it its people like you that are the problem. Heres what i mean the cold war is over has been for a while i guess no one told the Russians.The US i guess has been naive we assumed Russia was a world partner. Have moved towards closer relation made ab honorary member of NATO giving them observer status.See you dont let your enemy observe and participate in your defense. The irony is the US didnt consider Russia a threat until Putin went off the deep end.

Now something else you said is well kind of concerning you said russia is superior (powerful) in economics and culture than ukrainians. This sounds like something we heard before and it started a very scary time just change ukrainian with jew. Im really not trying to start something however i have noticed Ethnic Russians have this inferiority complex and must boast of being stronger its actually quite concerning actually. Just so you know Ukrainians are the reason Russians are here your from their culture not the other way around. The sad part is Russia is causing Ukrainians to panic and worry there neighbor is going to invade their homes and you think thats ok. Because you arrogantly say thats russia front door and sadly you dont see what the problem is with that statement do you?



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 09:09 PM
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a reply to: dragonridr

The alternatives to creating peace have been offered in my earlier post.

The ego and arrogance of power is too much in the NATO circles, especially USA. It is US which is pushing Europeans to expand eastwards and pick a fight with the Russians.

About time, about the very time, someone, some block, some entity..............HITS THESE ARROGANT MINDS SOOOOOO FUKKKKKKING HARD..........JUST ONE PUNCH THAT..........PERMANENTLY TURN THEIR HEADS AT 90 DEGREES. WON'T BE LOOKING EAST DIRECTION ANYMORE..............I GUESS.

ps: only a very chronic idiot would flip the truth and say COLD WAR MENTALITY NEVER ENDED FROM RUSSIAN SIDE.

ps2: do we really need to discuss matters with trash minds, penny broke economically....stealing from future generations??????????



posted on Apr, 17 2014 @ 09:32 PM
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originally posted by: victor7
a reply to: dragonridr

The alternatives to creating peace have been offered in my earlier post.

The ego and arrogance of power is too much in the NATO circles, especially USA. It is US which is pushing Europeans to expand eastwards and pick a fight with the Russians.

About time, about the very time, someone, some block, some entity..............HITS THESE ARROGANT MINDS SOOOOOO FUKKKKKKING HARD..........JUST ONE PUNCH THAT..........PERMANENTLY TURN THEIR HEADS AT 90 DEGREES. WON'T BE LOOKING EAST DIRECTION ANYMORE..............I GUESS.

ps: only a very chronic idiot would flip the truth and say COLD WAR MENTALITY NEVER ENDED FROM RUSSIAN SIDE.

ps2: do we really need to discuss matters with trash minds, penny broke economically....stealing from future generations??????????


Well it appears the US has made a mistake ill grant you that much its not arrogance however its naivety. See as Americans we look at the world thinking everyones like us sadly this teaches us there not. So yeah its definately the US fault for not realizing europeans and more specifically the Russians but its in Europe too cant let go of the past. See in America we dont hold grudges against other countries you see it in are foreign policy. Could be the worst enemy but then something happens and next thing you know were giving them money.Or the other way around look at Israel long time friend well than Obama destroyed that now there barely an associate.

As far as the cold war its Russian paranoia that caused this NATO wasnt expanding into Ukraine even for a Missile defense system there just to damn close. By the time the launch was detected and confirmed it would be through Ukraine already Poland is a much better site. However Russia voiced their opinion on that and the plan was cancelled at their request. Well gurantee now thyll be one in poland but any way Russians need to stop fearing the world and join it. This whole thing was started out of fear no other reason sadly the Russians had nothing to fear until now. Reentering the cold war again is bad especially with the newer member of NATO they arent experienced playing the dame and mistakes can happen.



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