It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

page: 356
367
<< 353  354  355    357  358  359 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 06:45 PM
link   

rigel4

SurrenderingAmerica
DJW001:

Ukraine is another bogus US puppet regime.

What do you get when a coup-imposed gov't hires: US FBI agents, DOJ agents & Dept.of State 'specialists' to run your country?


DJW001, what do you think would be a good name for this NEW Ukraine?

How about: United States of Ukrainian America? No?
How about: Ukrainian State of America?
How about: Independent Ukrainian State of America?

ahhh I'm not good at naming, why don't you give it a shot. . .


How about a member of "The Imperial States of Russia"!

or the "Russian Reich".

There ...easy

I'll play...

"Great America and ass-kissing states"




posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:04 PM
link   
dragonridr:

wrong, wrong & WRONG!

Wasn't it the US Dept.of State that gave $5 BILLION to the neo-nazi Right Sector in order to destabilize Ukraine? Oh wait. . . funny that this same US Dept.of State is NOW sending it's 'specialists' to Ukraine to help run the coup-imposed gov't.


Kiev has the testicular fortitude now because the world police is wrapping up M.E. and they need a new 'boogeyman'. BOO! Were you scared? Don't be.

EU/Ukraine would be a better place if you can get the World Police out of there asap!


Oh & in regards to "shutting energy off from Russia to EU" is for the better. That is an incredibly bad idea & has a HIGH probability of failure & Russia will still remain in control over Energy within the EU regions.

Go educate yourself:
EU options on Russian energy stranglehold few and pricy
U.S. Natural Gas Is Not A Weapon To Be Wielded Against Russia

^^^ Those are from 'pro-western' sources. . . I have more links but I think you'll get the drift



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:14 PM
link   

Dutzy
Possible Russian invasion strategies. via Royal United Services Institute

pic.twitter.com/lxGNNepnH6
edit on 15-4-2014 by Dutzy because: (no reason given)


Another perspective -

Why Putin’s Adventure in Ukraine Is Doomed


From Russian President Vladimir Putin’s perspective, the plan to annex parts of Ukraine probably goes something like this: take Crimea; ignite Russian nationalism in parts of the country where ties to Moscow run deep; then incite anti-Ukrainian protests in these places and use the protests as an excuse to send Russian troops into eastern Ukraine and annex it -- just as he did in Crimea.

“It is classic Russian foreign policy to try to destabilize a country before it completely takes it over,” said Edward Goldberg, a professor at Baruch College and the New York University Center for Global Affairs. “Russia has always considered Ukraine as a nation culturally and historically connected to it.”


This plan had been unfolding just as Putin wanted--pro-Russia protestors have taken over government buildings in eastern Ukraine, while Russian troops wait at the border. Now, however, Putin’s plan is becoming undone for the simple reason that Russian nationalism within Ukraine is not nearly as powerful as he anticipated.


Click link for remainder of article.

To our friends on the other side, any comments / articles with the opposing angle would be appreciated.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:19 PM
link   

stumason
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Quite - Qatar and to a lesser extent the US are ready to supply LNG. The UK already gets a good haul of gas via LNG terminals from the Middle East, so we could easily up the importation then pipe it back to the continent.

Russia relying on holding the EU to ransom with gas has spectacular backfired. Their timing sucks as well, they should have played this game before Winter, not Summer.


And none of that accounts for the possibility of some European nations allowing fracking to tap their own supplies. The other thing ive noticed is a push towards development / investment of technology by nations who are tired of the fluctuating markets / prices based on which nation of the month is pissing someone else off.

Part of me has to ask -

Is it possible all of this war / foreign adventures / terrorism / ideologies could in fact be the catalyst for peace? If it forces nations to develop / invest in new technology that allows self sufficiency / or close to it while at the same time allowing nations to be able to access their own resources where they could not before...

There are several projects in the US looking at expanding our LNG export system. We have hit the point in exports that are starting to impact the global market.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:22 PM
link   
reply to post by Dutzy
 


Iran making that move is a massive tell for what is going on behind the scenes. I am actually shocked they adopted that position, let alone spoke about it publically.

I wonder if its along the same lines as Belarus and China actions in the last UNSC meeting. Neither country outright supported Russian actions. They both took the middle of the road, urging all sides to find a settlement.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:30 PM
link   
Latest from Simon and his Vice crew from Slovyansk...


warning.. graphic footage



Shows how this particular city seems to be completely controlled by pro Russia residents, and a scene towards the end that shows the aftermath of an attack on a vehicle, which was reported to be an official Ukraine vehicle where their was 1 killed, 1 wounded in the vehicle...

Simon gives his thoughts on what may have occurred based on his info.. take it for what it's worth, but I still appreciate the work they are doing in the region... You would think a major deal like this would be covered by the MSM more in depth, but I guess they are too focused on the missing plane and that guy who is on trial for murder in some nation in Africa..



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:42 PM
link   
reply to post by Dutzy
 


Well, that's an interesting little tid bit! I don't know where you sourced your quoted text from, but I did find an article posted on the United Press International (UPI) website that supports your claim.

Nice find!



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:43 PM
link   

SurrenderingAmerica
dragonridr:

wrong, wrong & WRONG!

Wasn't it the US Dept.of State that gave $5 BILLION to the neo-nazi Right Sector in order to destabilize Ukraine? Oh wait. . . funny that this same US Dept.of State is NOW sending it's 'specialists' to Ukraine to help run the coup-imposed gov't.


Kiev has the testicular fortitude now because the world police is wrapping up M.E. and they need a new 'boogeyman'. BOO! Were you scared? Don't be.

EU/Ukraine would be a better place if you can get the World Police out of there asap!


Oh & in regards to "shutting energy off from Russia to EU" is for the better. That is an incredibly bad idea & has a HIGH probability of failure & Russia will still remain in control over Energy within the EU regions.

Go educate yourself:
EU options on Russian energy stranglehold few and pricy
U.S. Natural Gas Is Not A Weapon To Be Wielded Against Russia

^^^ Those are from 'pro-western' sources. . . I have more links but I think you'll get the drift


Oh i love the 5 billion lie RT told see Nueland was referring to aid we gave Ukraine since 1991. In case you didnt know this the US gave money to several former soviet states including Russia itself. It was aid to rebuild their economy this money was spent before and frankly stolen by Yanukovich. This is one of the reasons i hate foreign aid so much because it usually goes into someone's pocket. Do you realize the US paid for the final decommissioning of Chernobyl do you think Ukraine came up with the hundreds of millions needed? So keep telling the lie it just shows your a Russian propagandist instead of someone who looks at the facts and actually asses the situation. As far as gas sources countries are lining up to sell to Europe they wont go without Russias just losing customers. The great thing about a world market is theres always other suppliers. But that one truth is inconvenient for RT to tell you.By the way did you know Halliburton has started fracking for natural gas in Poland? keep up with whats really going on the EU was planning on shutting out Russian gas anyway the EU is grabbing resources.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:50 PM
link   

Xcathdra
reply to post by Dutzy
 


Iran making that move is a massive tell for what is going on behind the scenes. I am actually shocked they adopted that position, let alone spoke about it publically.

I wonder if its along the same lines as Belarus and China actions in the last UNSC meeting. Neither country outright supported Russian actions. They both took the middle of the road, urging all sides to find a settlement.


Actually the more i think about it the more sense it makes easy way to get there sales up the west has been reluctant to buy from Iran because they feel its rewarding them. But now there standing there going hey look over here we have what you need self preservation is a powerful motivator.Also gives them a sense of stability since if they give Europe a good deal they will be less likely to continue sanctions.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 07:55 PM
link   
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Why argue with someone else's 2nd, 3rd or 14th account?

I am curious to see how tomorrow turns out and how Russia is going to react. From what I have seen sanctions have been agreed by the west however no "red line" have been established to implement them.

I am also curious to see how Putin's demand for the UN to condemn Ukraine is going to go. The arrogance he is exhibiting is impressive, especially coming from a man that is so small on the world stage. I surprised myself when I thought that Obama was behaving in a more appropriate manner than Putin is with this incident.

Reference the post above -
Russian has made comments about backing off of their support on the Iran issue as a means to influence Ukraine. That's why I found their comments amazing. The number of Russian countries that are taking a different approach to this situation is astounding. I am thinking that the level of damage Putin has caused Russia on the world stage is going to be a whole lot worse than we initially thought.

Right now, I don't see anyway for Putin to dig himself out of this.
edit on 15-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:03 PM
link   

Xcathdra
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Why argue with someone else's 2nd, 3rd or 14th account?

I am curious to see how tomorrow turns out and how Russia is going to react. From what I have seen sanctions have been agreed by the west however no "red line" have been established to implement them.

I am also curious to see how Putin's demand for the UN to condemn Ukraine is going to go. The arrogance he is exhibiting is impressive, especially coming from a man that is so small on the world stage. I surprised myself when I thought that Obama was behaving in a more appropriate manner than Putin is with this incident.


You forgot may not even be the same person they could be taking shifts lol.Hes putting on a show at the moment look russia calls a meeting of the security council to complain about the possible use of force against the pro russians. I really think he thought the security council was going to advice them against using force listen to russias speech at the beginning.Putin is looking for a way to spin this im relizing even Putin knows he screwed up now hes looking for justification of his actions. And well i guess he keeps thinking he can find it through the UN???



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:18 PM
link   
reply to post by zilebeliveunknown
 



So, thanks but no thanks, keep your gas, we will continue to buy cheaper from Russia.


Thank you for admitting that Russia needs to sell at a loss. Ask your supervisor to explain your error.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:22 PM
link   
reply to post by zilebeliveunknown
 



"Great America and ass-kissing states"


How about "Once and Future Ukrainian Empire?"



Remember: Moscow was once a vassal to Kiyev. If Putin doesn't back off, it could be again!



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:23 PM
link   
link



Taras Berezovets, Ukrainian political analyst and strategist and adviser to Yulia Tymoshenka during her second term as Prime Minister from 2007 to 2010 discusses the current situation in Ukraine and says interrogation of captured Russian intelligence officers leads the Ukraine to believe that Russia has plans to split Ukraine into three parts.


Looks like there's a good bit of speculation on what is going to happen, and it looks as though the Russians do have a plan. This could, of course, just be hogwash, but it doesn't look like it.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:25 PM
link   
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Look at the assets NATO has deployed.. Surveillance aircraft as well as some of the vessels deployed to the black sea, which are also surveillance in nature (the French vessel).

Ukraine does a 180 and entertains Putins suggestion about a referendum on the same day as the Presidential elections. That move stunned me... After looking at everything that has taken place in the last 24 hours its almost as if Putin's entire strategy had been gutted and tossed back into the Kremlin.

With the vote referendum added, it removed the ability of Russia to claim people were being oppressed. It also removed Russian ability to control the referendum. Since Kiev agreed to it, the Ukraine government would be responsible for the election and its results. It would also reveal that the support Putin keeps claiming he has in those areas is no where close to what he is claiming.

With the measured response by the Ukraine government, allowing pro Russian forces extra time to think about standing down while phasing in their objectives. They had several incidents where negotiations occurred between Ukraine units and pro Russian forces. I was confused as to why Ukraine kept announcing what they were doing on twitter and other outlets until it dawned on me they were backing their actions with their words. It removed Putin's ability to claim Kiev launched a massive military action in a disproportionate manner.

When they captured Russian officers with Pro Russian units they announced it. They, Ukraine, also announced the investigations into politicians in the areas that were wanting to break away. That apparently has caused pro Ukrainians to start coming out of the wood work, which further undermines putin's plans.

As I stated before.. I don't see how Putin think he is going to come out of this intact. He has miscalculated from the start and does not seem to accept the fact no one is believing what he is claiming. Even his own allies are distancing themselves. They had over 10k people turn out in Moscow, calling on the government to stop using the media to spread lies about Ukraine.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:29 PM
link   

AnIntellectualRedneck
link



Taras Berezovets, Ukrainian political analyst and strategist and adviser to Yulia Tymoshenka during her second term as Prime Minister from 2007 to 2010 discusses the current situation in Ukraine and says interrogation of captured Russian intelligence officers leads the Ukraine to believe that Russia has plans to split Ukraine into three parts.


Looks like there's a good bit of speculation on what is going to happen, and it looks as though the Russians do have a plan. This could, of course, just be hogwash, but it doesn't look like it.


This was discussed a month or so back... Apparently Russia approached some of the E. European countries that border Ukraine and suggest Ukraine should be dissolved and the territorial claimants could get the land. It was a non starter with the E. European nations. East would go to Russia, the remaining would go to Romania, Moldova was also merged somewhere in there, and I think some went to Poland.

Since that didn't work, Russia went to the Lets make Ukraine into a Federation.

All that is left is for Putin to pitch a tent and charge admission.. He has certainly created the circus of the century.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:31 PM
link   
reply to post by DJW001
 

Hey, don't be jealous now.
I'd be the first one for Murica's gas if the price is lower than Russia's.
Till then, pump a pair will ya'...



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:33 PM
link   

DJW001
reply to post by zilebeliveunknown
 



"Great America and ass-kissing states"


How about "Once and Future Ukrainian Empire?"



Remember: Moscow was once a vassal to Kiyev. If Putin doesn't back off, it could be again!


Ok have to say that was hilarious thanks im still laughing.



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:37 PM
link   
reply to post by DJW001
 

LOL
Once upon a time, behind the seven seas and seven mountains...

I see what you did there with that map, but you left out one 'minor' thing, there has never been any Ukranian empire...

Here, educate yourself... and all others to see text book propaganda on act... and how handlers mess up sometimes...



Kievan Rus' (Old East Slavic Рѹ́сь, Рѹ́сьскаѧ землѧ, Greek Ῥωσία, Latin Rus(s)ia, Ruscia, Ruzzia, Rut(h)enia, Old Norse Garðaríki) was a loose federation of East Slavic tribes in Europe from the late 9th to the mid-13th century, under the reign of the Rurik dynasty.
The modern peoples of Belarus, Ukraine, and Russia all claim Kievan Rus' as their cultural inheritance.

Kievan Rus'
edit on 15-4-2014 by zilebeliveunknown because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 15 2014 @ 08:47 PM
link   

Xcathdra
reply to post by dragonridr
 


Look at the assets NATO has deployed.. Surveillance aircraft as well as some of the vessels deployed to the black sea, which are also surveillance in nature (the French vessel).

Ukraine does a 180 and entertains Putins suggestion about a referendum on the same day as the Presidential elections. That move stunned me... After looking at everything that has taken place in the last 24 hours its almost as if Putin's entire strategy had been gutted and tossed back into the Kremlin.

With the vote referendum added, it removed the ability of Russia to claim people were being oppressed. It also removed Russian ability to control the referendum. Since Kiev agreed to it, the Ukraine government would be responsible for the election and its results. It would also reveal that the support Putin keeps claiming he has in those areas is no where close to what he is claiming.

With the measured response by the Ukraine government, allowing pro Russian forces extra time to think about standing down while phasing in their objectives. They had several incidents where negotiations occurred between Ukraine units and pro Russian forces. I was confused as to why Ukraine kept announcing what they were doing on twitter and other outlets until it dawned on me they were backing their actions with their words. It removed Putin's ability to claim Kiev launched a massive military action in a disproportionate manner.

When they captured Russian officers with Pro Russian units they announced it. They, Ukraine, also announced the investigations into politicians in the areas that were wanting to break away. That apparently has caused pro Ukrainians to start coming out of the wood work, which further undermines putin's plans.

As I stated before.. I don't see how Putin think he is going to come out of this intact. He has miscalculated from the start and does not seem to accept the fact no one is believing what he is claiming. Even his own allies are distancing themselves. They had over 10k people turn out in Moscow, calling on the government to stop using the media to spread lies about Ukraine.


Well Ukraine knows the UN is watching so you may have a point they are trying to let everyone know what they're doing. I really didnt think of that good call.that explains this




During the conversation with German Chancellor Angela Merkel, Putin also raised concerns about what he called an "anti-constitutional course" taken by Ukrainian authorities in Kiev to suppress protests.
Despite what Merkel's office described as "different assessments of the events on the ground in Ukraine," the focus of the conversation was on preparations for a meeting in Geneva among the foreign ministers of Russia, Ukraine, the United States and the European Union to find a way to reduce tensions in the region.



Also a report came out from the UN im wondering if it had any effect there was a couple of things in there that were interesting.




We identify some cases of people being harassed because of being close to former political establishment and President Yanukovych – a number of them being Russian-speaking or Russian themselves.”

“But,” Simonovic said, “they were neither widespread nor systemic.”
Far from being fair, the Crimea referendum on joining Russia was peppered with “many reports of vote rigging,” the report says.

“The activities of the civil society were impeded,” Simonovic said. “There were some arrests, some enforced disappearances, cases of torture. We still have some missing persons.”

And far from being a spontaneous outpouring of fear and loathing for Ukraine, the report says that Russian propaganda played a large role in the move.

The cases of harassment of Russians was “overblown by propaganda,” Simonovic said.



So Putins whole we were just trying to save Russians excuse is blown to hell. The UN doesnt buy it at all Putin is effectively isolating Russia from the world talk about backfire i really think he thought he could come out of this smelling like roses.



new topics

top topics



 
367
<< 353  354  355    357  358  359 >>

log in

join