Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

victor7

Asked during a trip to Berlin whether the United States could arm Ukrainian forces, senior diplomat Thomas Shannon said: "Obviously we are looking at that as an option ... but at this point I can't anticipate whether or not we are going to do that".

reply to post by Wookiep

 

That would be an act of war. I would not be surprised if Russia conducts a pre-emptive strike on Ukraine before these weapons arrive or are on the way to. US will be wise enough !!

I wager those would be the weapons which were unloaded in Poti and stored in Georgia. That's why US ships have illegally entered the black sea. Under Black Sea treaty there are limits to both the number of ships and their tonnage, both of which right now US has violated.

renden

victor7

Asked during a trip to Berlin whether the United States could arm Ukrainian forces, senior diplomat Thomas Shannon said: "Obviously we are looking at that as an option ... but at this point I can't anticipate whether or not we are going to do that".

reply to post by Wookiep

 

That would be an act of war. I would not be surprised if Russia conducts a pre-emptive strike on Ukraine before these weapons arrive or are on the way to. US will be wise enough !!

I wager those would be the weapons which were unloaded in Poti and stored in Georgia. That's why US ships have illegally entered the black sea. Under Black Sea treaty there are limits to both the number of ships and their tonnage, both of which right now US has violated.

Its not an act of war. Under the UN Charter sovereign nations that come under attack have a right to self defense, up to and including foreign military assistance.

www.theguardian.com...


A Russian fighter jet made multiple, close-range passes near an American warship in the Black Sea for more than 90 minutes Saturday amid escalating tensions in the region, U.S. military officials said Monday.

In the first public account of the incident, the officials said the Russian Fencer made 12 passes, and flew within 1,000 yards (900 metres) of the USS Donald Cook, a Navy destroyer, at about 500 feet (150 metres) above sea level.

The U.S. warship issued several radio queries and warnings using international emergency circuits, but the Russian aircraft did not respond.

darkorange
Washington officials just have confirmed CIA chief Brennan visited Kiev over the weekend))))
He had a passport under different name. And wearing a skirt for disguise))). Ok, it was a joke about the skirt, folks. Sorry.

edit on 14-4-2014 by darkorange because: (no reason given)

This is an example of what im referring to.

Can you please link to the source where you obtained this information?


ETA - Never mind I found it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Reuters - www.reuters.com...

darkorange

TheWhiteKnight

The entire situation is actually on the way to defuse. Puppet dubbed Turchinov is now back pedalling and 'looks into nation wide referendum to occur' same day as election day. Guess, why? Plotting escape route by securing western provinces of Ukraine, may be?

reply to post by darkorange

 

Guess why?

Because Putin just transferred some cash into Turchinov's account. You know, from his proletariat slush funds.

How will the people miss, what they never had?

Communism been very very good to Putin. He's the world's 2nd richest man, right behind Gates, and he never produced a single thing.

Just a humble oligarch.

Shopping for real estate is fun!

# 228

edit on 14-4-2014 by TheWhiteKnight because: (no reason given)

What planet are you from. The richest people are the ones who run GB and US and trying to run the planet, in that case.

How about Royal family, the Queen? And they been shopping human lives since time immemorial, millions of lives claimed. I do not know why I even bother responding to this kind of statements.


Cheers)

Last I checked Russia was a member of the G-8.

Well up until recently but you get the idea.

victor7

Making it a Federal system allows the provinces / regions the ability to "leave" Ukraine and be on their own or ask to join Russia.

reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Thanks for the explanation.

That's a smart way of getting about the business. Where US spends billions, creates all sorts of chaos and ends up killing 100s of thousands, Russia just uses smart ways to get the job done.

US is too ambitious about the world. It should first tend to its own internal problems rather than trying to expand NATO further eastwards.

The problem with that Plan is it is essentially taking over Ukraine by breaking it up. The Russians continue to make comments about the federal government in Kiev in an effort to build support for that possibility.

What I think is occurring now is a delay game by both sides - While the Ukrainian President / PM entertains those ideas from Russia, Presidential elections in Ukraine draw closer. I am anticipating an ultimatum issued at some point in the near future where Russia is going to make a claim and send troops into Ukraine.

Russia kept pushing the referendum to turn Ukraine into a federal setup. For the longest time Ukraine refused it. Then all of a sudden they are on board with it. I don't think the change has anything to do with a pay off. I think its a calculated tactic to call Russia's hand.

I say this because if Ukraine actually went through with the referendum, their would be election monitors in all areas, including the East and the South. With Ukraine overseeing the vote, it is doubtful the results could be manipulated by Russia.

victor7
US is too ambitious about the world. It should first tend to its own internal problems rather than trying to expand NATO further eastwards.

Not really - The US Federal government is doing exactly what they are suppose to be doing. Local issues are dealt with at the State level.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Well it's 2014 not 1939. Today in a war between major powers the strategic objectives that can be obtained without invoking MAD with direct attacks on another nuclear power should be reached within hours and there is only one known weapon system capable of that. The sheer amount of resources spent building these weapons by major powers and defensive systems against them speaks volumes of their value. I can't imagine a major conflict with high stakes for any nation who possesses them where they aren't the first weapon used.

renden

victor7

Asked during a trip to Berlin whether the United States could arm Ukrainian forces, senior diplomat Thomas Shannon said: "Obviously we are looking at that as an option ... but at this point I can't anticipate whether or not we are going to do that".

reply to post by Wookiep

 

That would be an act of war. I would not be surprised if Russia conducts a pre-emptive strike on Ukraine before these weapons arrive or are on the way to. US will be wise enough !!

I wager those would be the weapons which were unloaded in Poti and stored in Georgia. That's why US ships have illegally entered the black sea. Under Black Sea treaty there are limits to both the number of ships and their tonnage, both of which right now US has violated.

Keep reading the agreement. Restrictions can be placed by Turkey as can exemptions. Secondly Turkey is a member of NATO, as are a few other countries in that area. Our vessels can be stationed in those NATO areas.

I think Ukraine are screwed whatever they do.... if they go in and try and clear out the Russian "troops" and pro-Russian public from eastern Ukrainian towns, then Russia could come in and it could turn into a full scale war.
If they just sit back and do nothing, then they will lose half of their country, at least.

The UK/US signed up to protect them should they come under attack or their sovereignty be threatened and they're not protecting them, then again do the UK/US want to actually get into a military confrontation with Russia if Russia do roll into the Ukraine?
Would the people of UK & US support a war against Russia... is it worthwhile, are we honour bound, should we stick to our agreement and go in and protect them?

Should we keep out? we've meddled too much... it's not our fight?

It's such a tough decision....

reply to post by blupblup


To be honest im not so sure. If Russia continues its actions in Ukraine, and the South / East become occupied, Europe may actually start seeing the bigger picture in that at some point, Russian will continue their "retrieval" of former Soviet occupied lands.

I really don't think Europe is going to attempt appeasement being it didn't work the last time around. I think they are doing everything possible to try and resolve it diplomatically. If a war breaks out the EU / West / NATO can state they tried everything under the sun to try and resolve the issue.

Xcathdra

renden

victor7

Asked during a trip to Berlin whether the United States could arm Ukrainian forces, senior diplomat Thomas Shannon said: "Obviously we are looking at that as an option ... but at this point I can't anticipate whether or not we are going to do that".

reply to post by Wookiep

 

That would be an act of war. I would not be surprised if Russia conducts a pre-emptive strike on Ukraine before these weapons arrive or are on the way to. US will be wise enough !!

I wager those would be the weapons which were unloaded in Poti and stored in Georgia. That's why US ships have illegally entered the black sea. Under Black Sea treaty there are limits to both the number of ships and their tonnage, both of which right now US has violated.

Its not an act of war. Under the UN Charter sovereign nations that come under attack have a right to self defense, up to and including foreign military assistance.

Right, right. It's just that America keeps getting attacked somewhere other, then America. When other countries get attacked by America, that's all cool, as long as America feels all comfy and secure.

Funny thing is, I didn't get to vote for any of that. One thing I will vote for regardless of whatever, is the 2nd amendment, because that is what guarantees my right to self defense, and not a bunch of spook scum for hire.

reply to post by renden


Correct - its not an act of war.

Zaphod58
reply to post by intrptr

 

Yeah, because nuclear missiles are the only weapon in the world. It's always straight to nuclear weapons with you.

People come to nukes right away because of social inputs from media and general talk. But there are 100x more massive weapons out there that make the mind boggle totally.

That is why, it is good that war between two major powers has not broken out. Those in control of things know what follows once one side thinks its all over for them in conventional or regular WMD terms.

Euromaidan PR ‏@EuromaidanPR · 1h
#Ukraine #SBU intercepted phone call proving military aggression of #Russia in #Ukraine led by #GRU www.youtube.com...=31 … @A_Sannikov | PR

blupblup
I think Ukraine are screwed whatever they do.... if they go in and try and clear out the Russian "troops" and pro-Russian public from eastern Ukrainian towns, then Russia could come it and it could turn into a full scale war.
If they just sit back and do nothing, then they will lose half of their country, at least.

The UK/US signed up to protect them should they come under attack or their sovereignty be threatened and they're not protecting them, then again do the UK/US want to actually get into a military confrontation with Russia if Russia do roll into the Ukraine?
Would the people of UK & US support a war against Russia... is it worthwhile, are we honour bound, should we stick to our agreement and go in and protect them?

It's such a tough decision....

edit on 14/4/14 by blupblup because: (no reason given)

It is a tough call no matter which way we look at it, that's for sure...

i think the current path taken by NATO is the correct path, the US is also playing the authority warning off role, which i think is correct, should the world ignore the issue and become less vocal and drawing lines, Russia would only see this as a green light to push her luck even more, so regardless of people laughing at the US and Obama with his line drawing as well as NATO tbh, Russia may already have full control over Ukraine which is why she has chosen to covertly infiltrate the Ukraine with spetsnaz agents and other means to attempt a Crimea 2.0 with a full scale propaganda/disinformation war

Ukraine IMO, actually does have the upper hand while Russia is playing this game but she need more international advisers and the UN to step in where by the country can attain full lock down and check points to weed out Russian interference, to my understanding this has been asked of countless times and Russia has the power to veto

there are currently foreign advisers inside Ukraine assisting the interim government but this could prove counter productive and in the Russians propaganda favor, so the UN peacekeepers is at this point essential to bring an end to Russia's destabilization effort

Gregor Peter @L0gg0l UKRAINE PROTESTERS BURN TIRES IN FRONT OF PARLIAMENT IN KIEV, DEMAND RESIGNATION OF PRESIDENT TURCHYNOV -- WITNESSES 9 mins ago 3 retweets |

Apparently protesters in Kiev are going to be "storming" parliament shortly. There have been small fires lit around parliament as people voice their anger and frustration at the governments inability to act during the last few days in Eastern Ukraine. This has all the hallmarks of being Overthrow 2.0.

A new maidan is brewing in Kiev, while the current government is blaming Russia for the new anti government protests.

Participants of the Chamber, which on Monday evening gathered on Maidan, went to the Parliament, taking with him the tire. This live according to " Public TV ". People are very nervous. They shouted "Avakov resign", "have got". In addition, they want them out Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, acting President Alexander Turchinov and NSDC Secretary Andrew Parubiy. Veche, which called on come presidential candidate Anatoly Gritsenko and captain Vladimir Parasjuk, started at 19.00 on the Maidan in Kiev. One of the organizers said Dmitry Riznychenko Maidan want again "run" because of dissatisfaction with the actions of the new government. Meanwhile, Deputy Secretary of the National Security Council Victoria Syumar believes that the assault of the Verkhovna Rada plays into the hands of Russia. "The decision of the National Security Council invoked the army in counter-terrorist operation was signed a few days ago. Meeting just ended in Turchynov coordination of all matters connected with the movement of armed forces and other details of the transaction. These details I need to work well to have the result, and no casualties, "- she said. "The signals coming from Moscow in return, just disappointing - from the Russian Foreign Ministry on prevention of the use of the Armed Forces of the application Putin's press secretary that" receives a lot of complaints from Eastern Ukraine addressed to Putin to intervene in one way or another "- said Syumar. "This suggests that Moscow is preparing the ground for intervention, destabilizing both east and center. Plans assault Verkhovna Rada really fall into the plans of destabilization," - she said. "Unmanaged parliament would mean the impossibility of efficient operations and delegitimize any power as parliament and government. What's Next is not difficult to imagine. Intervention may well be explained by the desire to ensure stability in a country where there is no power and civil strife. Again the Russian special services prove that good at playing the public mood in terms of hysteria "- added Syumar. At 22:20 at the parliament building began to burn tires. At the 22:28 bus extinguished fire extinguishers. In parallel, the presidential candidate Yulia Tymoshenko asked the deputies to drive to Parliament. "Now begins the same script that is in Donetsk, only vidnoshennb to Parliament," - she said. Ukrainian Pravda All about: Parliament

The real problem is how Americans condone and support Islamo-Fashists and Neo-Nazis. As in every conflict, ignorance has never worked as an excuse. When we attacked Iraq the first time we had the support of the world. When we attacked Iraq for the second time, we had to force the support. Now NOBODY believes our lie but us, and the fools bribed with the all mighty dollar.

The real problem is the complete loss of any and all credibility America had. All we got left now are our guns, and thats why the same Federal government that's been on a world wide war binge, is trying non stop to repeal the 2nd amendment, so they'll be the only ones left with gun in America.

What's happening in Ukraine is people standing up against the Fascists, Neo-Nazi regime on the CIA installed junta. That's what every video from Eastern Ukraine clearly shows, while videos from the Wester Ukraine shows Nazi torch marches through the cities, along wide scale lawlessness, looting, kidnapings, extortion, etc.

What America is now known for, and will be remembers for, is the export of state sponsored criminality, all to the deafening apathy and silence of the American people.

I watched the videos, and what I seen was unarmed Ukrainian Patriots defending their land from armed invasion not by Russians, but by armed Kievs junta and foreign mercenaries.

The longer America chooses to support Neo-Nazis, the more saying "The only good Nazi is a dead Nazi" will apply to people in America, and not just some imaginary characters from movies with Brad Pitt in them.

reply to post by renden


The government in Ukraine was elected by the Ukrainian people so im not sure why you keep stating they weren't. Even Russia has acknowledged that fact in their media.

The current Parliament in Ukraine were elected in 2012 and they are still there as we speak.