Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

dragonridr

cosmonova

dragonridr

asen_y2k

dragonridr

asen_y2k
Woke up early, took a days leave from work, big day today, wanted to stay at home to cover the news.

So what do guys predict will happen now?

edit on 14/4/14 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

Well at 6 am it starts i guess Ukraine can and probably will oust the Russian troops unless Russia just decides to heck with it and starts the invasion. I dont think they will however because even Russia can see the UN is teetering on the edge of getting involved in this.The Russian ambassador had to sit through to hours of country after country telling him Russia is acting inappropriately for a member of the UN. So Putins best option is to try to hold another fake referendum meaning the fight wont be easy to oust the Russians.And Russia will be doing alot of tough talk trying to scare Kiev. The UN already has observers in the area and Russia now knows this in no uncertain terms as they were told multiple times. To blatantly go in under false pretext like they did in Crimea could cost them a seat at the UN i dont think they want to give up that power for Ukraine.

Unless Putin has just completely lost it and wants to take on the world just like Hitler instead i think hes going to continue to try to destabilize Ukraine hoping it falls into total anarchy. Then he continues to push each region for autonomy and he has a bunch of little countries he can manipulate and no central power to contend with.

edit on 4/14/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

Nothing on TV yet, operation hasn't started or is not being covered on TV yet.

Dont you think that Russia has no other option left other than use force. They have no time left too. Western powers will try to quickly take Ukraine into their net i.e. NATO. and if today Ukraine wipes out the pro Russian bunch its over for Russia. The Russian army has been standing on the border for a long time, ready, wasting resources. I think thats the reason Russia accelerated the events. After the UN show I think only option left for Putin is to attack militarily.

Oh and I forgot, will they sacrifice all their special forces holed up in the buildings in eastern Ukraine.

edit on 14/4/14 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

Well i wouldnt expect them to start exactly at 6 am gives away the element of surprize. It will be within the next 24 hours first id get some eyes into those buuildings find out how many where they are im sure Ukraine will get some help in doing just that. As far as military option being the only one left no Putin might be crazy but even he realizes he cant take on the world. Hes been relying on bluff and bravado so far like playing poker.But eventually you have to put your cards on the table if your opponent doesn't fold. So if Ukraine indeed removes them the card game is over my only question is does Kiev have the ability to call the bluff to be honest so far at every turn they backed down. Kiev was given the green light at the UN so its all on them and how they proceed. Negotiation time is over they need to remove them from the government buildings. If they buy into Russia bluff thyll lose eastern Ukraine to a minority group who will claim they had a majority vote to join Russia.

are you aware that there is 8-9 million Russians living in East and South of Ukraine, ready to fight thugs from Kiev?
There is absolutely no need for Russia to interfere directly full on. People of Donetsk, Kharkiv, Lugansk, Odessa,etc are the ones
Kiev is facing. And you never win a war against your own people. You see, Russians are tough MFs and once you step on them you will cope a big one. You do not know much about Russians. Might be hard for you to understand as you only fought those poor village people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Do you mean those poor village people that kicked the Russians out of there country with their tail between their legs ? I also have to laugh i read an article that was talking about how Russians have to see themselves as tough. IOt was talking about how their standard of living was lower than the west and they lack the technology so this rugged individualism pops up. You so proved the article right does it make you feel better Russians are tough?

Can you enlightened us what exactly US has achieved in Afghanistan?
Apart from protecting poppy seed fields have you seen any other action (this probably answers my first question)?

I have a bad feeling about this. The upcoming blood moon is ominous and even during a regular full moon people go funny in the head. I hope people don't go too crazy if this escalates into conflict especially those with nuclear weapons and other nasty weapons that probably exist but we don't know about yet.

demus
I agree, provocations started by pro Russians and the Ukraine government took the bait.

Sure, which means Ukraine is responding, not starting.

demus
about the video - where did you see Russians attacking Ukrainians or situation in Crimea - on the Internet?

When the crap in Crimea started, masked armed gunmen seized government buildings, and arrested the elected Prime minister of Crimea. They then appointed a new Prime minister, instead of electing. That would be a coup.

demus
using that logic we could dismiss everything.

k

demus
why don't you and others who support Ukrainian government at least admit that there are radical elements that helped to install the government, are being part of the government and are organizing against Russians in Ukraine?

nobody can deny that.

If you and the others would take the time to read responses you would notice that not one person has stated the Ukraine government is an angel in all of this. My responses with regards to claims of NEO Nazis etc is based on the blanket comments people make.

Do I believe the entire government in Ukraine is comprised of Neo Nazi thugs and whatever else being call them? Absolutely not.

Do I believe there are members of the Ukrainian government who have neo Nazi mindsets? Absolutely.

This is one of the main reasons I continually ask pro Russian people to cite their sources when they make the claims about the Ukraine government. They claim the entire Ukraine government does this or that without providing anything to substantiate it. instead of providing a link, they get pissy and launch personal attacks.

Not one person has supplied me with any links to support their claims the entire government in Kiev is neo Nazi thugs. not one person has provided me with links to support any claims against any single members of Ukraine's Parliament that would support the accusations made they are neo Nazis.

See my dilemma?

Absent verifiable information I will reserve judgment to just my opinion. I do law enforcement for a living and I deal with this type of mindset almost every day. You respond to a call and you always have 3 sides to every story -

Person A's side
Person B's side
And somewhere in the middle is the truth - C.

You wanna convince me of something, go for it. Just don't expect me to take as fact generic youtube videos with nothing to put the video into context. Its like some of the Russian media reports that cite - Unnamed sources.

Are unnamed source real - sure.
Do I trust them - not really no, regardless of the side they are on.

I have tried to engage people on the pro Russian side and all I get in return are personal attacks, being called a Nazi blah blah blah. All that does is make me question their posts even more.

To rap this up even your question above can be used as an example -

demus
why don't you and others who support Ukrainian government at least admit that there are radical elements that helped to install the government, are being part of the government and are organizing against Russians in Ukraine?[/qipte]
Your question is in general and the manner in which it is stated can result in an answer that can be twisted into something its not.

As I have asked before and have been ignored - What members of the Ukrainian government are Neo Nazi / all other labels that have been used. In addition, what have those members done to get the label?

reply to post by asen_y2k


I highly doubt Putin will invade (west)Ukraine, I do believe Putin will anexiate( don't know if this is a real world annexed ) East Ukraine.

East Ukraine is very pro Russian, so I believe they WANT to join. West Ukraine is a lost cause for Putin.

Xcathdra
reply to post by cosmonova

 

Which is all nice but you didn't answer my question. Ukraine does not allow for dual citizenship. If there are 8-9 million Russians present, as you claim, then they either need to abide by Ukrainian law or move back to Russia. It really is that simple.

Kosovo, Albanians ring a bell?

Voice of Russia live updates

RT live updates

I am keeping an eye on pro Russians news too.

BBC also has a live news section on Ukraine on their website.

asen_y2k
reply to post by Wookiep

 

Some members here (whos opinion I highly respect, and ask them for their opinion) posted in the previous page that Russia will not invade. Got me thinking of that senario too. But looks like Russia is constantly setting up the ground works for the 40,000 strong force waiting on the border.

CNN reporter tweeted a week back that their tanks got painted with peacekeeping slogans and colours. Right before Russia put up the case for peace keepers.

edit on 14/4/14 by asen_y2k because: (no reason given)

Ive seen the we will not invade pledge...

It was the same one they used when they stated they would not invade Crimea.
It was the same one they used when they stated they would not annex Crimea.

military maneuvers are one thing. Setting up supply / logistics lines to the extent the Russians have does not support their view that they are just military exercises. They have deployed medical units with their forces , which again, to the extent the Russians have set them up, does not support the claim of exercises.

There are reports of Russian special forces / FSB that were arrested inside Ukraine (I think you posted that tweet). If confirmed it only supports the growing verification that Russia is in fact involved inside Ukraine in a military manner.

The other issue I see - Lots of pro Russians keep making comments about how crappy Ukraine is, how weak their military is etc etc etc. If that's true, why does Russia need those forces on the border then?

Pro Russian forces started their work before Kiev.

Anti-Maidan activists are trying to take over police HQ in Gorlovka, a city with a population of more than 250,000 in the turbulent Donetsk Region of Ukraine, local media reported. Earlier reports said some of the protesters spent the night in City Hall.

cosmonova

Xcathdra
reply to post by cosmonova

 

Which is all nice but you didn't answer my question. Ukraine does not allow for dual citizenship. If there are 8-9 million Russians present, as you claim, then they either need to abide by Ukrainian law or move back to Russia. It really is that simple.

Kosovo, Albanians ring a bell?

It does but apparently you and others seem to ignore the fact Russia was involved with NATO and the UN in those areas. Secondly the comparison using those nations has been debunked several times now, including by the UN fact sheets.

however -

Which is all nice but you didn't answer my question. Ukraine does not allow for dual citizenship. If there are 8-9 million Russians present, as you claim, then they either need to abide by Ukrainian law or move back to Russia. It really is that simple.

MessageforAll
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

I highly doubt Putin will invade (west)Ukraine, I do believe Putin will anexiate( don't know if this is a real world annexed ) East Ukraine.

East Ukraine is very pro Russian, so I believe they WANT to join. West Ukraine is a lost cause for Putin.

Annexing parts of a sovereign nation is an attack on a sovereign nation. People can try to use whatever language you want to try to give it a sense of legality, but it is an invasion. Unless Russia is able to convince the UN to change international law on what constitutes an invasion - which I don't see happening.

Followed by David Patrikarakos


Olga Tokariuk ‏@olgatokariuk · 1m
Only 26,9% residents of #Donetsk want to join #Russia, 77% disapprove of separatists action - poll www.theinsider.ua... … #Ukraine

US State Department

Russian Fiction the Sequel: 10 More False Claims About Ukraine Fact Sheet Office of the Spokesperson Washington, DC April 13, 2014

“No amount of propaganda can make right something that the world knows is wrong.”
– President Obama, March 26

Russia continues to spin a false and dangerous narrative to justify its illegal actions in Ukraine. The Russian propaganda machine continues to promote hate speech and incite violence by creating a false threat in Ukraine that does not exist. We would not be seeing the violence and sad events that we've witnessed this weekend without this relentless stream of disinformation and Russian provocateurs fostering unrest in eastern Ukraine. Here are 10 more false claims Russia is using to justify intervention in Ukraine, with the facts that these assertions ignore or distort.

1. Russia Claims: Russian agents are not active in Ukraine.

Fact: The Ukrainian Government has arrested more than a dozen suspected Russian intelligence agents in recent weeks, many of whom were armed at the time of arrest. In the first week of April 2014, the Government of Ukraine had information that Russian GRU officers were providing individuals in Kharkiv and Donetsk with advice and instructions on conducting protests, capturing and holding government buildings, seizing weapons from the government buildings’ armories, and redeploying for other violent actions. On April 12, armed pro-Russian militants seized government buildings in a coordinated and professional operation conducted in six cities in eastern Ukraine. Many were outfitted in bullet-proof vests, camouflage uniforms with insignia removed, and carrying Russian-designed weapons like AK-74s and Dragunovs. These armed units, some wearing black and orange St. George’s ribbons associated with Russian Victory Day celebrations, raised Russian and separatist flags over seized buildings and have called for referendums on secession and union with Russia. These operations are strikingly similar to those used against Ukrainian facilities during Russia’s illegal military intervention in Crimea in late February and its subsequent occupation.

2. Russia Claims: Pro-Russia demonstrations are comprised exclusively of Ukrainian citizens acting of their own volition, like the Maidan movement in Kyiv.

Fact: This is not the grassroots Ukrainian civic activism of the EuroMaidan movement, which grew from a handful of student protestors to hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians from all parts of the country and all walks of life. Russian internet sites openly are recruiting volunteers to travel from Russia to Ukraine and incite violence. There is evidence that many of these so-called “protesters” are paid for their participation in the violence and unrest. It is clear that these incidents are not spontaneous events, but rather part of a well-orchestrated Russian campaign of incitement, separatism, and sabotage of the Ukrainian state. Ukrainian authorities continue to arrest highly trained and well-equipped Russian provocateurs operating across the region.

3. Russia Claims: Separatist leaders in eastern Ukraine enjoy broad popular support.

Fact: The recent demonstrations in eastern Ukraine are not organic and lack wide support in the region. A large majority of Donetsk residents (65.7 percent) want to live in a united Ukraine and reject unification with Russia, according to public opinion polls conducted at the end of March by the Donetsk-based Institute of Social Research and Policy Analysis. Pro-Russian demonstrations in eastern Ukraine have been modest in size, especially compared with Maidan protests in these same cities in December, and they have gotten smaller as time has progressed.

4. Russia Claims: The situation in eastern Ukraine risks spiraling into civil war.

Fact: What is going on in eastern Ukraine would not be happening without Russian disinformation and provocateurs fostering unrest. It would not be happening if a large Russian military force were not massed on the border, destabilizing the situation through their overtly threatening presence. There simply have not been large-scale protests in the region. A small number of separatists have seized several government buildings in eastern cities like Donetsk, Luhansk, and Slovyansk, but they have failed to attract any significant popular support. Ukrainian authorities have shown remarkable restraint in their efforts to resolve the situation and only acted when provoked by armed militants and public safety was put at risk. Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) observers have reported that these incidents are very localized.

5. Russia Claims: Ukrainians in Donetsk rejected the illegitimate authorities in Kyiv and established the independent “People’s Republic of Donetsk.”

Fact: A broad and representative collection of civil society and non-governmental organizations in Donetsk categorically rejected the declaration of a “People’s Republic of Donetsk” by the small number of separatists occupying the regional administration building. These same organizations confirmed their support for the interim government and for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.

6. Russia Claims: Russia ordered a “partial drawdown” of troops from the Ukrainian border.

Fact: No evidence shows significant movement of Russian forces away from the Ukrainian border. One battalion is not enough. An estimated 35,000-40,000 Russian troops remain massed along the border, in addition to approximately 25,000 troops currently in Crimea.

7. Russia Claims: Ethnic Russians in Ukraine are under threat.

Fact: There are no credible reports of ethnic Russians facing threats in Ukraine. An International Republican Institute poll released April 5 found that 74 percent of the Russian-speaking population in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine said they “were not under pressure or threat because of their language.” Meanwhile, in Crimea, the OSCE has raised urgent concerns for the safety of minority populations, especially ethnic Ukrainians, Crimean Tatars, and others. Sadly, the ethnic Russians most at risk are those who live in Russia and who oppose the authoritarian Putin regime. These Russians are harassed constantly and face years of imprisonment for speaking out against Putin’s regular abuses of power.

8. Russia Claims: Ukraine’s new government is led by radical nationalists and fascists.

Fact: The Ukrainian parliament (Rada) did not change in February. It is the same Rada that was elected by all Ukrainians, comprising all of the parties that existed prior to February’s events, including former president Yanukovych’s Party of Regions. The new government, approved by an overwhelming majority in the parliament -- including many members of Yanukovych’s former party -- is committed to protecting the rights of all Ukrainians, including those in Crimea.

9. Russia Claims: Ethnic minorities face persecution in Ukraine from the “fascist” government in Kyiv.

Fact: Leaders of Ukraine’s Jewish as well as German, Czech, and Hungarian communities have all publicly expressed their sense of safety under the new authorities in Kyiv. Moreover, many minority groups expressed fear of persecution in Russian-occupied Crimea, a concern OSCE observers in Ukraine have substantiated.

10. Russia Claims: Russia is not using energy and trade as weapons against Ukraine.

Fact: Following Russia’s illegal annexation and occupation of Crimea, Russia raised the price Ukraine pays for natural gas by 80 percent in the past two weeks. In addition, it is seeking more than $11 billion in back payments following its abrogation of the 2010 Kharkiv accords. Russia’s moves threaten to increase severely the economic pain faced by Ukrainian citizens and businesses. Additionally, Russia continues to restrict Ukrainian exports to Russia, which constitute a significant portion of Ukraine’s export economy.

Xcathdra

cosmonova

Xcathdra
reply to post by cosmonova

 

Which is all nice but you didn't answer my question. Ukraine does not allow for dual citizenship. If there are 8-9 million Russians present, as you claim, then they either need to abide by Ukrainian law or move back to Russia. It really is that simple.

Kosovo, Albanians ring a bell?

It does but apparently you and others seem to ignore the fact Russia was involved with NATO and the UN in those areas. Secondly the comparison using those nations has been debunked several times now, including by the UN fact sheets.

however -

Which is all nice but you didn't answer my question. Ukraine does not allow for dual citizenship. If there are 8-9 million Russians present, as you claim, then they either need to abide by Ukrainian law or move back to Russia. It really is that simple.

edit on 14-4-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)

are you trolling now?

Laura Mills @lauraphylmills "CIVIL WAR HAS BEGUN IN UKRAINE" = headline in major Russian paper this morning. No clarifying context, of course. pic.twitter.com/SGsoCw1ZeW 12 mins ago 38 retweets | 4 replies

cosmonova
are you trolling now?

not at all... You made a claim and I asked a question you are refusing to answer.

Are you trolling by making a claim you cant support and then refusing to answer questions because you made it up?

Aljazeera Updates

Ukraine's east braces for military operation

Ukrainian TV stating that the Russian military has moved to combat readiness.

Sure this has been reported multiple times since yesterday. Maybe now they are very very ready for combat or something.

Xcathdra

MessageforAll
reply to post by asen_y2k

 

I highly doubt Putin will invade (west)Ukraine, I do believe Putin will anexiate( don't know if this is a real world annexed ) East Ukraine.

East Ukraine is very pro Russian, so I believe they WANT to join. West Ukraine is a lost cause for Putin.

Annexing parts of a sovereign nation is an attack on a sovereign nation. People can try to use whatever language you want to try to give it a sense of legality, but it is an invasion. Unless Russia is able to convince the UN to change international law on what constitutes an invasion - which I don't see happening.

again, Kosovo ring a bell? Hypocrisy in here is just amazing. Or maybe lack of knowledge.

Which is all nice but you didn't answer my question. Ukraine does not allow for dual citizenship. If there are 8-9 million Russians present, as you claim, then they either need to abide by Ukrainian law or move back to Russia. It really is that simple.


Can you let us know which Ukrainian law current 'government' has follow in order to violently takeover the power?
And lets face it if not for Maidan coup we would not witness all of this today.

Russian Market @russian_market #BREAKING REFERENDUM IN EASTERN UKRAINE IS POSSIBLE - TURCHYNOV 2 mins ago 11 retweets |