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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 10:45 AM
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Yusomad
reply to post by ProfessorT
 


Well you "experts" here have been telling us that for the last 10 days and still made no difference...


The so-called "experts" also said that Russia had no interest in invading Crimea and suggested there was no evidence that they were planning to.

I guess those government "experts" were too busy reading all our emails and intercepting the internet traffic of millions of innocent people to notice what a previous and (potential) future enemy was up to?

Putin already had influence in Crimea, he already had the peninsula under his control through permission. He didn't actually need to take it at all. Because he did, he's lost the backing and support of several nations around Russia, all of Europe, the USA, UK, Australia... He wasted $50 bil on the Olympics, he's pushed Russia gas customers further into the arms of the US and forced several nations to reduce their reliance on Russian fuel.

Either Putin has lost his mind, or he has a long term plan to start taking back several countries by force. No leader would trade everything Russia has now lost for complete control of a peninsula he already had control of, at least not without having a bigger plan.

Mark my words, Russia has sacrificed a hell of a lot for Crimea when it didn't need to sacrifice anything at all, so either Putin really has lost his mind and doesn't know how to weigh-up obvious pro's and con's, or he has no intention of stopping at Crimea.




posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 10:51 AM
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Rocker2013

Yusomad
reply to post by ProfessorT
 


Well you "experts" here have been telling us that for the last 10 days and still made no difference...


Putin has a long term plan...

...for complete control of a peninsula; not without having a bigger plan.



care to say what exactly Russia has lost?



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by Rocker2013
 


You calling it invasion, or the western warmongers for that matter, does not one invasion make. I thought that was clear since the beginning. When maidan/svoboda completed the coup, all bets were off, suggest you take a bit of time regarding the implications of western powers, its an eye opener. The info is readily available around here, enjoy.

Also, demus has a good question...



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 01:37 PM
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Yusomad
reply to post by Rocker2013
 


You calling it invasion, or the western warmongers for that matter, does not one invasion make. I thought that was clear since the beginning. When maidan/svoboda completed the coup, all bets were off, suggest you take a bit of time regarding the implications of western powers, its an eye opener. The info is readily available around here, enjoy.

Also, demus has a good question...


Yeah and mysteriously from RT who its been shown lies and is just going by talking points sent out by Putin. RT is nothing more than a Russian propaganda service. And there lies keep comming to light like when they claimes people were fleeing to Russia and it turned out it was a polish border crossing. You have people quit their jobs saying RT is biased and only telling a false narrative.If anyone is acting like Hitler its Putin as was pointed out in the Russian press. Until of course they clamped down on the media and told them what they were going to broadcast.




On March 24th the Kremlin made an example of Andrei Zubov, a Russian historian, who was among the first to draw parallels between Russia's occupation of Crimea and the annexation of Austria and Sudetenland territories in 1938-39. He was fired from his teaching position at the Moscow State Institute of International Relations, patronised by the foreign ministry. Mr Zubov's articles and interviews, the institute said, "contradict Russia's foreign policy and inflict careless, irresponsible criticism on the actions of the state, thus causing damage to the teaching and educational process." In an article in Vedomosti on March 1st, Mr Zubov had cited a speech by Hitler that was strikingly similar to the rhetoric used by Mr Putin when he addressed the nation about the annexation of Crimea. As Vedomosti commented in an editorial, the sacking merely confirms the accuracy of Mr Zubov's parallels.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...





As troops have occupied Crimea in recent weeks, Russian television has depicted President Vladimir Putin’s annexation as an awakening that saved the region from being overrun by fascists -- part of a propaganda effort rivaling the machine that shaped public opinion a generation ago.

“What’s happening now with state media and especially TV is unprecedented, even for the Soviet era,” said Tatiana Vorozheykina, lead researcher at the Levada Center in Moscow, Russia’s only independent polling company. “These are propaganda instruments and no one hides it.”

www.businessweek.com...


And if you think this is anything other than Russia trying to further its goals this was predicted by a putin advisor in 2009.




Back in 2009, Dugin was quoted as calling for war “to crush the Nabucco pipeline project as a means of stopping attempts to decrease European dependency on Russian energy resources.” The Nabucco pipeline project, sponsored by the European Union (EU), was to have transported gas from the Caspian Sea to Europe in order to bypass Russia.

The article went on: “Dugin is strictly in favor of Russian expansionism and nationalism and is closely affiliated with the Kremlin and Russian military intelligence. He is a strong proponent of the restoration of the Russian Empire through a partitioning of the former Soviet republics and unification with Russian-speaking territories.”

One of those “former Soviet republics” is Ukraine. “We have to topple Nabucco and partition Ukraine,” Dugin said. “Ukraine has to be divided into two vassal states. We have to always be a step a. of our rivals.”



And finally one last lie i particularly like this one it shows the Ukrainian NEO nazis are Russians have to love it.

www.thegatewaypundit.com...



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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Sorry,

It's up to us to discuss the global/political chess?

What do you all know about it? Let the rulers, the deciders, that you have voted for, decide it.

In the meantime do something productive



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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mactaties
Sorry,

It's up to us to discuss the global/political chess?

What do you all know about it? Let the rulers, the deciders, that you have voted for, decide it.

In the meantime do something productive


Yes, it is up to us to make ourselves informed by discussion. ATS is an international community with many opinions to share in the search for truth.

If you want to just accept whatever your leaders, and the MSM tell you, that is your choice. Keep your . in the sand if that makes you happy.

In order to be productive, one must have as much information to work with, as one can.

If you don't think sharing ideas and feelings is productive...why are you here?

Des



edit on 29-3-2014 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 01:51 PM
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reply to post by Destinyone
 

To enlighten you, and others like, leave somethings to someone whom can deal with it, take care of other stuff, find a hobby and enjoy



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 01:55 PM
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And here enters the one country that can swing this whole Crimea situation one way or the other....whether you like it or not...

Angry Germany Asks "Is It Time For A Formal Espionage Investigation?" After Latest NSA Spying Revelations



With friends like these, who needs Russians.

In the summer of 2013, a big diplomatic spat erupted when as a result of Snowden's revelations, it became clear that among the countless world leaders the NSA was spying on was none other than US "best buddy forever", German chancellor Angela Merkel. Why would the US spy on one of its closest strategic allies the Germans wondered: after all is it not Germany where the bulk of NATO forces are stationed (a topic that is sure to gain more prominence in the coming months now that the second coming of the USSR is just around the corner).


Mhmmmm....and there's more.....the rabbit hole just gets deeper...please, please, please read the whole article. T&C's wont allow me to quote much more.....



So back to the question at hand: will Germany finally escalate the hand over of all individual privacy to what is effectively economic espionage? The answer: of course not, certainly not at a time when a few hundred kilometers to the East none other than Vladimir Putin is finally stretching his muscles at an attempt of restoring the USSR piecemeal, the first step of which already took place with the bloodless annexation of Crimea. The last thing Germany can afford now is a diplomatic spat with the only nation which can possibly prevent a Russian expansion beyond merely former USSR countries but also into Europe. Which is why people of Germany: hold your noses and bear it. You have no choice. Unless of course, Germany, as some suggest may happen, decided to dump its superficial diplomatic closeness with the US and realligns with what is rapidly becoming the world's most powerful axis, the Eurasians, aka China, Russia and India. Add Germany to this, and suddenly the global balance of power as we know it ist kaput.


www.zerohedge.com...

Rainbows
Jane



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 02:10 PM
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angelchemuel
And here enters the one country that can swing this whole Crimea situation one way or the other....whether you like it or not...

Angry Germany Asks "Is It Time For A Formal Espionage Investigation?" After Latest NSA Spying Revelations



With friends like these, who needs Russians.

In the summer of 2013, a big diplomatic spat erupted when as a result of Snowden's revelations, it became clear that among the countless world leaders the NSA was spying on was none other than US "best buddy forever", German chancellor Angela Merkel. Why would the US spy on one of its closest strategic allies the Germans wondered: after all is it not Germany where the bulk of NATO forces are stationed (a topic that is sure to gain more prominence in the coming months now that the second coming of the USSR is just around the corner).


Mhmmmm....and there's more.....the rabbit hole just gets deeper...please, please, please read the whole article. T&C's wont allow me to quote much more.....



So back to the question at hand: will Germany finally escalate the hand over of all individual privacy to what is effectively economic espionage? The answer: of course not, certainly not at a time when a few hundred kilometers to the East none other than Vladimir Putin is finally stretching his muscles at an attempt of restoring the USSR piecemeal, the first step of which already took place with the bloodless annexation of Crimea. The last thing Germany can afford now is a diplomatic spat with the only nation which can possibly prevent a Russian expansion beyond merely former USSR countries but also into Europe. Which is why people of Germany: hold your noses and bear it. You have no choice. Unless of course, Germany, as some suggest may happen, decided to dump its superficial diplomatic closeness with the US and realligns with what is rapidly becoming the world's most powerful axis, the Eurasians, aka China, Russia and India. Add Germany to this, and suddenly the global balance of power as we know it ist kaput.


www.zerohedge.com...

Rainbows
Jane



You do realize every country spies on every other country thats how the game is played does this really surprise you? Germany actively spies on its allies as well cant believe how naive people are at times. Here read this and learn how the international spy communities really work.




For two decades, a quiet office park outside Frankfurt has served as home to Project Rahab, a cyber-espionage operation named after the prostitute in the Book of Joshua who helps spies infiltrate Jericho. According to the National Security Council's Operations Security Intelligence Threat Handbook, Project Rahab is an arm of the Bundesnachrichtendienst, or BND, Germany's foreign intelligence agency. Of note, the BND is directly subordinate to German chancellor Angela Merkel.

Project Rahab uses SIGINT -- intelligence based on interception of signals, conversations and electronic communications -- to gather information on foreign business competition that can benefit German companies. BND officers have penetrated computer networks and databases in countries including Russia, the United Kingdom, Japan, France, Italy, and the United States.

www.huffingtonpost.com...



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 02:18 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 02:26 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 02:29 PM
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angelchemuel
POST REMOVED BY STAFF


Because you posted that as a look how evil the US is and every country on the planet has spies. And they all spy on each other even Russia you know the phone call they released Estonia is supposedly a friend but there tapping their phones. Its the way countries work you must know what everyone else is up to if you dont think Americans have spies in Russia and vice versa.That doesnt change the fact Putin is lying trying to make this invasion into something its not. I showed you this was planned since 2009 at least. This has nothing to do with NEO Nazis in Ukraine it has everything to do with Russia needed that territory.
edit on Sat Mar 29 2014 by DontTreadOnMe because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 02:32 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 02:55 PM
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It was announced a few hours ago that John Kerry and Sergei Lavrov will meet each other in Paris tomorrow. I see only one of two possible outcomes; 1) Kerry agrees to everything Lavrov wants in Ukraine I.e federalisation, referendums (possibly) and more Russian influence as well as an acceptance on behalf of the US and EU to accept what happened in Crimea as 'legal' and just or; 2) There are a few areas of agreement but Lavrov and Kerry refuse to budge and Vladimir Putin gives the order to invade.

For those that are saying Russia won't invade think about this...on 4th March Putin was asked whether he would annex Crimea. He said he had no plans to do so. Two weeks later Crimea is annexed and Putin inks the region into the Russian Federation. Food for thought.
edit on 29-3-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 03:07 PM
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Internet decorum...



Or lack thereof?


The off topic personal back and forth will stop from this point on.

The topic is important enough, and contentious enough, that bringing in personalities only makes for hard feelings. Discuss the issue, not each other.


(post by angelchemuel removed for a manners violation)

posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by ProfessorT
 


Yeah, Kerry was allegedly halfway home from Saudi Arabia and actually had his plane turn around and . to Paris. That probably tells you a lot about how serious things really are at this instant.



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 03:49 PM
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alesa
Ukraine as a country can be and survive. if there will be war. we are afraid that there will be a new war. we, ordinary residents of western Uraine can not sleep quietly. please pmogite us if you can. targeted assistance.


LOL! "targeted assistance", that must be some new tricky way of calling drone strikes or something

--> zagranica vam pomozhet



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 06:35 PM
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This morning I thought I saw on tv or online a pretty substantial .line saying " Putin vows no ukraine invasion" or something like that . Is that current ? Is he bluffing?



posted on Mar, 29 2014 @ 06:37 PM
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schmae
This morning I thought I saw on tv or online a pretty substantial .line saying " Putin vows no ukraine invasion" or something like that . Is that current ? Is he bluffing?


It is still current..but Putin is Liar, so his words carry
no weight.



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