Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

demus

dragonridr

ProfessorT
Indeed and look what else Russia were doing today...

Russia Launches Nuclear-War Drill, Saying It Was Long Scheduled

Yeah, really? What a way to go if you want to be responsible and de-escalate things. Twitter is alight with Russian propaganda. They have spun this phone call so much, making it out like Putin offered a diplomatic hand to Obama when it's been the other way round for the last month.

edit on 28-3-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

I really think Putin thought he could spin this to make him look like the hero. Problem is his propaganda keeps falling apart. He played this entirely wrong from the beginning. Almost makes me think someone wanted him to fail to take Russia out of the global economy because thats exactly what happened and Putin had to know thats the odd part. He just destroyed the Russian economy for decades to come.

destroyed Russian economy?
that is completely wrong.
even if the West could isolate Russia completely they would still not do it.
there are many deals going on and Russia is a major player.
you cannot just ignore the major world power.
why?
because whatever they do to Russia will influence them as well, governments surely don't want that, not to say corporations and banks.
for now, it's not clear who is winning this game.
but I'm sure who will be the losers: people of Ukraine.

Countries wont want to make deals with Russia hes all ready alienated Europe do you think they will continue to buy Russian gas? Watch within 5 years those European pipelines will be closed.And China will have Russia just where they want they will be in control of the Russian economy. China has wanted to dominate Asian economies well it looks like there getting a bigger prize than they could have ever dreamed of. Dont think for one minute China isnt going to love the reversed role of Russia being a third world economy. In case you dont know this there's a lot of history between China and Russia and the Chinese dont forget. But im sure the Russians will end up giving back manchuria before its all over with. See the chinese havnt forgotten it was brought up again in negotiations in 1998 think it had been over 100 years. China doesnt like Russia they didnt like lenin and believe he corrupted communism.There is whole generations of Chinese taught to hate Russians and dont think they arent going to enjoy Russian dependency lol.

Man, I read all these posts, and it is all so complicated. I just want to know one thing, where is Putin going to get money for all these intricate plans? Bankers, before Iraq and Afghan, were all about funding wars and skirmishes, but I don't think so anymore.

MOMof3
Man, I read all these posts, and it is all so complicated. I just want to know one thing, where is Putin going to get money for all these intricate plans? Bankers, before Iraq and Afghan, were all about funding wars and skirmishes, but I don't think so anymore.

edit on 28-3-2014 by MOMof3 because: (no reason given)

Russian loans are over they were downgraded to risky foreign bankers wont be making investments in Russia without huge returns meaning alot of intrest if there willing to take the risk at all.See Putin made another mistake when he threatened to take over companies dont you realize companies are busy divesting themselves of Russian assets.

reply to post by dragonridr


Russia has huge reserves of gold, cash. Russia is 100% self sufficient, unlike the US, which has outsourced our economy, and is therefore very dependent on imports. 40% of Germany's car exports are to Russia which is now the largest car market in Europe. If real sanctions were imposed, Europe would be thrown into severe recession. The average Russian could no longer buy a BMW or VW, but they would survive just fine.

reply to post by dragonridr


If the US administration gets really, really mad at Russia, they will ask Europe to shoot themselves in both feet (economically) - while standing back and watching.

dragonridr

demus

dragonridr

ProfessorT
Indeed and look what else Russia were doing today...

Russia Launches Nuclear-War Drill, Saying It Was Long Scheduled

Yeah, really? What a way to go if you want to be responsible and de-escalate things. Twitter is alight with Russian propaganda. They have spun this phone call so much, making it out like Putin offered a diplomatic hand to Obama when it's been the other way round for the last month.

edit on 28-3-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

I really think Putin thought he could spin this to make him look like the hero. Problem is his propaganda keeps falling apart. He played this entirely wrong from the beginning. Almost makes me think someone wanted him to fail to take Russia out of the global economy because thats exactly what happened and Putin had to know thats the odd part. He just destroyed the Russian economy for decades to come.

destroyed Russian economy?
that is completely wrong.
even if the West could isolate Russia completely they would still not do it.
there are many deals going on and Russia is a major player.
you cannot just ignore the major world power.
why?
because whatever they do to Russia will influence them as well, governments surely don't want that, not to say corporations and banks.
for now, it's not clear who is winning this game.
but I'm sure who will be the losers: people of Ukraine.

Countries wont want to make deals with Russia hes all ready alienated Europe do you think they will continue to buy Russian gas? Watch within 5 years those European pipelines will be closed.And China will have Russia just where they want they will be in control of the Russian economy. China has wanted to dominate Asian economies well it looks like there getting a bigger prize than they could have ever dreamed of. Dont think for one minute China isnt going to love the reversed role of Russia being a third world economy. In case you dont know this there's a lot of history between China and Russia and the Chinese dont forget. But im sure the Russians will end up giving back manchuria before its all over with. See the chinese havnt forgotten it was brought up again in negotiations in 1998 think it had been over 100 years. China doesnt like Russia they didnt like lenin and believe he corrupted communism.There is whole generations of Chinese taught to hate Russians and dont think they arent going to enjoy Russian dependency lol.

edit on 3/28/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)

well, all you say is partly true.
but you will be much closer to the truth if you stop treating countries and governments as people.
a whole lot of business is going on in the world, even with sanctions imposed and even between the enemies.
as for relations between China and Russia; you should really read more about it.
they have a lot of important agreements signed, they are partners.
China didn't publicly support Russia for it's recent actions because they didn't have to and it's not in their interest and most importantly; Russia can handle it very well on it's own.

To be honest there have been lots of people on social networking as well as 'expert' bloggers saying this. There was a very good blog written for the Atlantic Council website which you can read by clicking here. Most 'experts' think Russia has until the end of the weekend to make the decision to invade or retreat back to barracks.

reply to post by ProfessorT


Well you "experts" here have been telling us that for the last 10 days and still made no difference...

reply to post by ProfessorT


i have been reading this morning that the vast flatland's that expand from Eastern Ukraine all the way across to Moldova
are to wet to provide a surface for T90 Battle tanks.

The ground is drying fast after winter this year.

Putin has two choices go or no go.. He may gamble that he will never get another chance.
He may already be too late.

Yusomad
reply to post by ProfessorT

 

Well you "experts" here have been telling us that for the last 10 days and still made no difference...

I'm sorry, I'm not an expert and don't be so flippant. Your endless trolling is becoming ridiculous. If you haven't got anything constructive to add to this thread don't add anything at all. Thank you.

IMO I don't believe the Russians are readying themselves for an assault. Remember the results and the ongoing destabilization of Egypt, Libya, Syria and now Ukraine. Russia didn't involve their forces inside these countries to create the affects being seen throughout the region. The US and it's allies, including NATO and Gulf Arab nations, were the ones backing the efforts to destabilize these countries.

When the increasing affects hit Syrian borders, and the wave of protests and violence smashed into Syria, Russia began it's involvement arming Assad, without direct military engagement to protect. However, the right to protect (R2P) under UN sanction cannot be unilateral only, which IMO Russia has utilized to intervene into Crimea, just like the US and it's allies did in the above mentioned countries.

Now after years of destabilization and confusion, the strategy being used to create havoc in Ukraine, with the involvement of NGO's and the like, the same which was used to invade and bomb Libya, create a revolution in Egypt, and the ongoing civil war in Syria, is now on some level being instigated in Ukraine.

The only way IMO that Russia would become involved is if the opposition ( the unelected governing body currently residing) begins to receive arms shipments from outside sources and a civil war ensues, just like in Syria.

Daedal
IMO I don't believe the Russians are readying themselves for an assault. Remember the results and the ongoing destabilization of Egypt, Libya, Syria and now Ukraine. Russia didn't involve their forces inside these countries to create the affects being seen throughout the region. The US and it's allies, including NATO and Gulf Arab nations, were the ones backing the efforts to destabilize these countries.

When the increasing affects hit Syrian borders, and the wave of protests and violence smashed into Syria, Russia began it's involvement arming Assad, without direct military engagement to protect. However, the right to protect (R2P) under UN sanction cannot be unilateral only, which IMO Russia has utilized to intervene into Crimea, just like the US and it's allies did in the above mentioned countries.

Now after years of destabilization and confusion, the strategy being used to create havoc in Ukraine, with the involvement of NGO's and the like, the same which was used to invade and bomb Libya, create a revolution in Egypt, and the ongoing civil war in Syria, is now on some level being instigated in Ukraine.

The only way IMO that Russia would become involved is if the opposition ( the unelected governing body currently residing) begins to receive arms shipments from outside sources and a civil war ensues, just like in Syria.

I dont think so either now that the white house has shut his mouth and stopped trying to make this public this will allow Russia to back out the mess without losing face. You see it even Lavrov is starting to change his banter now that private negotiations are starting.Obama had the completely wrong reaction he tried to get support in the international court of public opinion. And all that did as make Putin take a stronger stance because he cant look weak he has an image to uphold. You know he wrestles bears in his spare time and and can bend steel bars.

Russia's, West's approaches toward settling Ukraine crisis converging - Lavrov

MOSCOW. March 29 (Interfax) - Interaction between Moscow, Western countries and Kyiv to settle the crisis in Ukraine is becoming more tangible, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

"Anyway, we are bringing our approaches closer together. My last meeting with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry in The Hague and my contacts with Germany, France and some other countries show that a possible joint initiative that could be offered to our Ukrainian partners is taking shape," Lavrov said in an interview shown in an analytical program hosted by Sergei Brilyov on Rossiya-1 TV channel on Saturday.

reply to post by dragonridr

Even if the negotiations become so called "friendly," the US will continue moving forward. The only reason I make this statement is because of the recent news about whether the W.H. and the administration will arm Syrian rebel groups with MANPADS. If they do this, it will definitely change the landscape of the escalations in Syria and tilt it more toward US aligned policy.

Source

President Barack Obama’s possible shift would likely be welcomed by Saudi Arabia, which has been pressing the White House to allow the man-portable air-defense systems, known as “manpads,” into Syria.

IMO this move will further destabilize Russia as well, something Putin has been against since the onset of the interference being ran inside Syria to destabilize it. If Syria further degrades into all out war, especially if they receive these weapons, and oust Assad as they've been trying to do, the strongest defense from arms entering into Ukraine through NATO allied countries, Turkey and Georgia would be by securing Crimea, which they did.

reply to post by Daedal

IMO this move will further destabilize Russia as well, something Putin has been against since the onset of the interference being ran inside Syria to destabilize it.

Is Putin's grasp of power so feeble that events in Syria could destabilize Russia? I knew things were bad there, but I had no idea they were that bad.

If Syria further degrades into all out war,

What do you call what has been going on there for the past two years?

especially if they receive these weapons, and oust Assad as they've been trying to do, the strongest defense from arms entering into Ukraine through NATO allied countries, Turkey and Georgia would be by securing Crimea, which they did.

First, what does Assad have to do with NATO or Russia? That civil war could go either way and, ultimately, neither NATO nor Russia would care about the outcome. As for NATO arms entering Ukraine, what does Crimea have to do with anything? The interim government in Kiyev still controls the port city of Odessa, despite the efforts of Putin's thugs. There are also many airfields that can be used. You seem to be unaware just how careful NATO has been to respect Russia's traditional sphere of influence. All of the Central and Eastern European countries that have been admitted into NATO were either historically independent, like Poland, or were former Austro-Hungarian territories. Georgia is being considered for NATO membership only because Russia attacked it, a mistake Putin has repeated with Ukraine.

Ukraine as a country can be and survive. if there will be war. we are afraid that there will be a new war. we, ordinary residents of western Uraine can not sleep quietly. please pmogite us if you can. targeted assistance.

Is Putin's grasp of power so feeble that events in Syria could destabilize Russia? I knew things were bad there, but I had no idea they were that bad.

Russia's only warm water port in the Mediterranean is in Syria at Tartus, along with it's naval installation as well. Destabilizing and ousting Assad could eliminate this along with deteriorating Russian Naval presence.

What do you call what has been going on there for the past two years?

In one word contained. However, if the balance shifts and the rebels begin to take control of the ground and air, there's no telling where it will stop.

First, what does Assad have to do with NATO or Russia? That civil war could go either way and, ultimately, neither NATO nor Russia would care about the outcome. As for NATO arms entering Ukraine, what does Crimea have to do with anything? The interim government in Kiyev still controls the port city of Odessa, despite the efforts of Putin's thugs. There are also many airfields that can be used. You seem to be unaware just how careful NATO has been to respect Russia's traditional sphere of influence. All of the Central and Eastern European countries that have been admitted into NATO were either historically independent, like Poland, or were former Austro-Hungarian territories. Georgia is being considered for NATO membership only because Russia attacked it, a mistake Putin has repeated with Ukraine.

Assad has nothing do with NATO, sorry if I may have insinuated that. Too say that Russia and NATO wouldn't care of the outcome in Syria ultimately is naive, IMO, and for several reasons. The strategic importance of this region is vital to US national interest and it's pivot to Asia. To answer your question about Crimea and arms shipments...The route and proliferation of arms from Syria through turkey (NATO) and into Crimea, then to Ukraine has been cut-off.

Once or if the escalations in Syria heightened the proliferation of weapons from Syria, as seen in Libya after the fall of Gaddafi, go where the next effort of destabilization is occurring, as seen in the past. And finally about Russia invading Georgia, there are conflicting reports. Also the same tactic used there was used in Ukraine...during the Olympics.

Source
Source
Source

IT's been awhile since VICE published a clip from the region, I thought perhaps the crew had been pulled from the region..

Not so, here's one chronicling the takeover of the base at Feodosia, and the subsequent withdrawal of the Marines to mainland Ukraine.

Here is a link to another video believed to have been recorded today in Novorossiysk, Russia showing at least 100 Russian military vehicles including APC's. This is quite easily the biggest group of Russian vehicles that have been recorded together from all the videos I've seen of Russia's movements. Also the area is right near the sea. Not sure if there any ports there?!

Russia continues maneuvers near Ukrainian border.


The Russian side continues maneuvering troops and military equipment at the Ukrainian border.
This was announced by Deputy Minister of Defence of Ukraine Leonid Polyakov.
"On the border with Russia continued accumulation and maneuvering various parts of the Armed Forces, they go to the border, or go inside, moving along the border," - he said.
The Deputy Minister said the following Russian military provocation aimed at psychological pressure.
"They learn how our military react to their actions. Fact clear when planes and helicopters approaching our borders, our agents in any way forced to react and how we respond, n definitely learn" - said Polyakov.
He added that the Ukrainian side keeps troops in constant readiness and intends to do so as long as necessary.
In addition, the Deputy Minister said that about a third of Ukrainian troops in the Crimea expressed a desire to go over to the Russian army.
At the same time, according to him, a third remained loyal to the people of Ukraine, as many more want to retire from the Armed Forces of Ukraine.
"As for those who entered the service of, they will be held accountable to their own conscience and to the Ukrainian legislation," - he said.
Speaking of breeding techniques and weapons from the Crimea, the deputy defense minister said that Russia adjusts its message.
"While the latest published position - they will take weapons from those parts that have not sided with Russia. But we do not have any parts that would be completely moved to the side of," - he said.

DJW001
reply to post by Daedal

 

That civil war could go either way and, ultimately, neither NATO nor Russia would care about the outcome.

as poster before me already correctly noted: your statement is naive, not to say ignorant.
(deny ignorance)
syria...

Syria’s geographical position at the heart of the Levant and its fiercely independent foreign policy make it a pivotal country in the eastern part of the Arab world.

Part of Syria’s territory, the Golan Heights, is under Israeli occupation.

Syria’s strategic importance has turned the civil war into an international contest for regional influence, with both sides drawing diplomatic and military support from various foreign sponsors.