Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

In my opinion the most likely direction of an assault on Ukraine is through Chernihiv. For days now we have been seeing videos and pictures of substantial military movement. Troops and tanks are arriving on a regular basis and interestingly field hospitals are being set up. I know the anti-west brigade are saying an invasion won't happen but all the signs are pointing to the likelihood that it will. You do not need 30,000 soldiers, thousands of tanks, APC's, trucks, S-300's and field hospitals for training exercises.

reply to post by ProfessorT


I'm starting to think Putin doesn't have the balls to set this thing off. If he was serious, it would have been done by now. It seems like he is waiting for someone else to take the first shot. Cold War II is what this looks like right about now.

doompornjunkie
reply to post by ProfessorT

 

I'm starting to think Putin doesn't have the balls to set this thing off. If he was serious, it would have been done by now. It seems like he is waiting for someone else to take the first shot. Cold War II is what this looks like right about now.

Or he's waiting for the pieces to be in the right place? - could be he's frustrated by the current lack of any crackdown on pro-Russian/anti-government protests by the interim leadership...

doompornjunkie
reply to post by ProfessorT

 

I'm starting to think Putin doesn't have the balls to set this thing off. If he was serious, it would have been done by now. It seems like he is waiting for someone else to take the first shot. Cold War II is what this looks like right about now.

Or he never planned to go into Ukraine in the first place and just wanted Crimea and the port. And has got that.

AP are reporting that Vladimir Putin called President Obama to discuss a diplomatic solution in Ukraine. Dear me, who put what in Putin's tea? Either that or those sanctions are really starting to hit the economy hard. Now it will really be interesting dependent on the phone call. I get the sense that if Putin doesn't give Crimea back to Ukraine the sanctions will remain. If the EU and US lift the sanctions and allow Putin to effectively steal land then that will just make them look even more weaker. Or could this be a swerve and Putin was just testing the waters before invading?

Readout of the President’s Call with President Putin

The White House Office of the Press Secretary For Immediate Release March 28, 2014 Readout of the President’s Call with President Putin President Putin called President Obama today to discuss the U.S. proposal for a diplomatic resolution to the crisis in Ukraine, which Secretary Kerry had again presented to Foreign Minister Lavrov at the meeting at the Hague earlier this week, and which we developed following U.S. consultations with our Ukrainian and European partners. President Obama suggested that Russia put a concrete response in writing and the presidents agreed that Kerry and Lavrov would meet to discuss next steps.

President Obama noted that the Ukrainian government continues to take a restrained and de-escalatory approach to the crisis and is moving ahead with constitutional reform and democratic elections, and urged Russia to support this process and avoid further provocations, including the buildup of forces on its border with Ukraine. President Obama underscored to President Putin that the United States continues to support a diplomatic path in close consultation with the Government of Ukraine and in support of the Ukrainian people with the aim of de-escalation of the crisis.

President Obama made clear that this remains possible only if Russia pulls back its troops and does not take any steps to further violate Ukraine’s territorial integrity and sovereignty. President Obama reiterated that the United States has strongly opposed the actions that Russia has already taken to violate Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Telephone conversation with US President Barack Obama

Vladimir Putin had a telephone conversation with President of the United States of America Barack Obama.

The two leaders continued exchanging views on the crisis in Ukraine.

Vladimir Putin drew Barack Obama’s attention to continued rampage of extremists who are committing acts of intimidation towards peaceful residents, government authorities and law enforcement agencies in various regions and in Kiev with impunity.

In light of this, the President of Russia suggested examining possible steps the global community can take to help stabilise the situation. The two presidents agreed that specific parameters for this joint work will be discussed by the Russian and US foreign ministers in the near future.

Vladimir Putin also pointed out that Transnistria is essentially experiencing a blockade, which significantly complicate the living conditions for the region’s residents, impeding their movement and normal trade and economic activities. He stressed that Russia stands for the fair and comprehensive settlement of the Transnistria conflict and hopes for effective work in the existing 5+2 negotiation format.

Both of these readouts are from the government websites of the US and Russia. They are both very, very different. Putin is less diplomatic and mentions Transnistria...Looks like NATO were right. Apparently the Russian media are really spinning this the way of Putin. Looks like nothing has changed in the circumstances.

reply to post by khimbar


Putin has balls and he will not back down, just read this and this article and it does not go in to detail of what he actually said that night..

www.telegraph.co.uk...

seppirish
reply to post by khimbar

 

Putin has balls and he will not back down, just read this and this article and it does not go in to detail of what he actually said that night..

www.telegraph.co.uk...

It's looking more and more to me that Putin has no choice but to back down. If he's dumb enough to invade to prove he "has balls" then just based on all the international pressure alone, I don't see him staying in office very much longer.

The phone call actually makes sense. I think Vladimir Putin is simply testing the waters to see how much he can get away with before stuff hits the fan. The spin on the phone call gives Putin's game away. Tonight will be one to watch I think because Putin has effectively copied his narrative before he invaded Crimea. There is just something dodgy about Putin extending a hand (almost).

reply to post by ProfessorT


He's a shifty character for sure, so you never know.. If he does invade he might as well go all out because he won't last much longer beyond it. It would be like a "Putin's Last Stand" kind of thing..

Indeed and look what else Russia were doing today...

Russia Launches Nuclear-War Drill, Saying It Was Long Scheduled

Yeah, really? What a way to go if you want to be responsible and de-escalate things. Twitter is alight with Russian propaganda. They have spun this phone call so much, making it out like Putin offered a diplomatic hand to Obama when it's been the other way round for the last month.

reply to post by ProfessorT


Yikes -

Roughly 10,000 military personnel were expected to participate in the maneuvers, which are intended as practice for a large-scale nuclear offensive

Bold emphasis mine. Yeah that's some crazy BS, just when we thought nuclear weapons were being slowly phased out. I could easily see Russia pressing the button first, they are constantly boasting about their underground facilities. Maybe they don't care about MAD and are just fine to live underground forever.

ProfessorT
Indeed and look what else Russia were doing today...

Russia Launches Nuclear-War Drill, Saying It Was Long Scheduled

Yeah, really? What a way to go if you want to be responsibly and de-escalate things. Twitter is alight with Russian propaganda. They have spun this phone call so much, making it out like Putin offered a diplomatic hand to Obama when it's been the other way round for the last month.

You mean like all the bickering uttered by the US (and some europeans) politicians for the last 2 weeks?
Man the hipocrisy knows no limits...

Exclusive - Russia threatened countries ahead of U.N. vote on Ukraine: envoys
ReutersBy Louis Charbonneau | Reuters – 9 minutes ago

Sources:
uk.news.yahoo.com...
uk.reuters.com...

deviant300

Exclusive - Russia threatened countries ahead of U.N. vote on Ukraine: envoys
ReutersBy Louis Charbonneau | Reuters – 9 minutes ago

Sources:
uk.news.yahoo.com...
uk.reuters.com...

edit on 28America/Chicagov49pm331300 by deviant300 because: sources

"We never threaten anyone. We just explain the situation." - why does that sound ominous to me?

ProfessorT
Indeed and look what else Russia were doing today...

Russia Launches Nuclear-War Drill, Saying It Was Long Scheduled

Yeah, really? What a way to go if you want to be responsible and de-escalate things. Twitter is alight with Russian propaganda. They have spun this phone call so much, making it out like Putin offered a diplomatic hand to Obama when it's been the other way round for the last month.

edit on 28-3-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

I really think Putin thought he could spin this to make him look like the hero. Problem is his propaganda keeps falling apart. He played this entirely wrong from the beginning. Almost makes me think someone wanted him to fail to take Russia out of the global economy because thats exactly what happened and Putin had to know thats the odd part. He just destroyed the Russian economy for decades to come.

Wookiep

seppirish
reply to post by khimbar

 

Putin has balls and he will not back down, just read this and this article and it does not go in to detail of what he actually said that night..

www.telegraph.co.uk...

It's looking more and more to me that Putin has no choice but to back down. If he's dumb enough to invade to prove he "has balls" then just based on all the international pressure alone, I don't see him staying in office very much longer.

It's not Putin, it's 100 million Russians backing him up.

At this point everybody has to acknowledge that when they bash Putin, they are bashing 100 million Russians. That's the reality.

Do we really want a war with 100 million Russians? All the rhetoric and bravado aside, is that what we want? WWIII?

If that is so, then God have mercy on our foolish souls.

I really think Putin thought he could spin this to make him look like the hero. Problem is his propaganda keeps falling apart. He played this entirely wrong from the beginning. Almost makes me think someone wanted him to fail to take Russia out of the global economy because thats exactly what happened and Putin had to know thats the odd part. He just destroyed the Russian economy for decades to come.

100 million Russians disagree with you. Right now Putin has the highest rating he EVER had.

With China, Russia is a global economy.

"China buys 5 percent of Ukraine's land"

www.upi.com...

Russia has what China needs the most - oil, gas, land, water. No amount of FED paper with numbers on it is going to feed millions upon millions of Chinese.

"The Dnipropetrovsk transaction comes with considerable side benefits for the region. The Chinese firm said it would help build a motorway in the Crimea and a bridge across the Strait of Kerch to connect the Crimea with the Taman peninsula in Russia. "

www.telegraph.co.uk...


People keep repeating like parrots "Putin this, Putin that", but it's not about Putin, it's about 100 million Russians and a billion Chinese.

If Americans keep thinking about the great "west" in terms of last century, and keep to the cold war mentality of KGB, USSR and all that other nonsense, then one day they'll wake up in a new world, in which they are the USSR, while the new world is China and Russia.

It's America that's isolating it self with the last grasp of brute military force and pressure on its fading puppet states, not Russia.

American consumer based economy is dead, it's a fact, and it's only a matter of time before the rest of the world will quit feeding American consumerism, because no one nation with 5% of worlds total population can consume 30% of the world's material resources and 40% of the gasoline, regardless of how big its military muscle is.

That's how the world sees Russia today, the last threshold of American expansion, regardless how UN is told to sing about it. When UN was actually attempting to block Neo-American colonization of the world, UN was called everything including obsolete, helpless and parasitic bureaucracy, but when UN is pressured into supporting every American atrocity, then all the sudden it's the voice of the "free world".

Yeah, world free to pillage and subjugate into modern slavery.

reply to post by renden

"China buys 5 percent of Ukraine's land"

Russia has what China needs the most - oil, gas, land, water.

And Vladimir Putin has taught China how to get what it needs. All those ethnic Chinese suffering in Siberia? Time to liberate them.

DJW001
reply to post by renden

 

"China buys 5 percent of Ukraine's land"

Russia has what China needs the most - oil, gas, land, water.

And Vladimir Putin has taught China how to get what it needs. All those ethnic Chinese suffering in Siberia? Time to liberate them.

Close but no cigar. It goes a little something like this;

ic.pics.livejournal.com...

Plus this;

putevodka.tv...

Ends it this;

s018.radikal.ru...

dragonridr

ProfessorT
Indeed and look what else Russia were doing today...

Russia Launches Nuclear-War Drill, Saying It Was Long Scheduled

Yeah, really? What a way to go if you want to be responsible and de-escalate things. Twitter is alight with Russian propaganda. They have spun this phone call so much, making it out like Putin offered a diplomatic hand to Obama when it's been the other way round for the last month.

edit on 28-3-2014 by ProfessorT because: (no reason given)

I really think Putin thought he could spin this to make him look like the hero. Problem is his propaganda keeps falling apart. He played this entirely wrong from the beginning. Almost makes me think someone wanted him to fail to take Russia out of the global economy because thats exactly what happened and Putin had to know thats the odd part. He just destroyed the Russian economy for decades to come.

destroyed Russian economy?
that is completely wrong.
even if the West could isolate Russia completely they would still not do it.
there are many deals going on and Russia is a major player.
you cannot just ignore the major world power.
why?
because whatever they do to Russia will influence them as well, governments surely don't want that, not to say corporations and banks.
for now, it's not clear who is winning this game.
but I'm sure who will be the losers: people of Ukraine.