Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

METACOMET

daaskapital
The title is misleading. Russia has not declared war on Ukraine - even if some media outlets have suggested as much.

Russia, while having an estimated 15,000 soldiers in the Crimea region of Ukraine, have acted strictly within agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. So no, Russia has not declared war. If they had done so, we would have already seen the USA and other nation-states act to aid the Ukrainian state.

With all this said, it is Ukraine which has threatened war with Russia.

A declaration of war? What is this, 1941?

Are you buying the "not necessarily an invasion but an uncontested arrival" Orwellian euphemism coming from the White House?

It's not me stating that Russia had declared war on Ukraine by sending troops into the Crimea region...it was the OP and according to him, the regional media. While some of the actions committed by the Russian Federation may be seen to be declarations of war, the actions were done without any *public* involvement from Russia itself. For example, there are masked men raiding key areas of Crimea. We suspect that they are Russian operatives, but without Russia's confirmation, or any direct link, it can be said that they have not declared war on Ukraine. As such, i do maintain that Russia has not declared war on Ukraine, at least through its public actions.

daaskapital
The title is misleading. Russia has not declared war on Ukraine - even if some media outlets have suggested as much.

Russia, while having an estimated 15,000 soldiers in the Crimea region of Ukraine, have acted strictly within agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. So no, Russia has not declared war. If they had done so, we would have already seen the USA and other nation-states act to aid the Ukrainian state.

With all this said, it is Ukraine which has threatened war with Russia.

I was wondering when the pro-Russian/anti-american member would start showing up... LOL, Ukraine has threatened war with Russia... Oh yea, they seem to be ready to start invading Russia any minute now..

jhn7537

daaskapital
The title is misleading. Russia has not declared war on Ukraine - even if some media outlets have suggested as much.

Russia, while having an estimated 15,000 soldiers in the Crimea region of Ukraine, have acted strictly within agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. So no, Russia has not declared war. If they had done so, we would have already seen the USA and other nation-states act to aid the Ukrainian state.

With all this said, it is Ukraine which has threatened war with Russia.

I was wondering when the pro-Russian/anti-american member would start showing up... LOL, Ukraine has threatened war with Russia... Oh yea, they seem to be ready to start invading Russia any minute now..

Piss off.

Is that all you can do? Throw pathetic names at members, just because they say something you don't like? Grow up.

Ukraine has threatened war with Russia, albeit, not directly. See here:

Ukraine has put its armed forces on full combat alert and warned of war after Russian president Vladimir Putin won approval from parliament to officially deploy troops in the region.

The vote gave the green light to Mr Putin's proposal to send troops into Ukraine's Crimea region, where the ethnic Russian majority is rejecting the new government in Kiev.

Ukraine's acting president Oleksander Turchinov has expressed concern, saying any Russian military intervention "would be the beginning of war and the end of any relations".

www.abc.net.au...

daaskapital

METACOMET

daaskapital
The title is misleading. Russia has not declared war on Ukraine - even if some media outlets have suggested as much.

Russia, while having an estimated 15,000 soldiers in the Crimea region of Ukraine, have acted strictly within agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. So no, Russia has not declared war. If they had done so, we would have already seen the USA and other nation-states act to aid the Ukrainian state.

With all this said, it is Ukraine which has threatened war with Russia.

A declaration of war? What is this, 1941?

Are you buying the "not necessarily an invasion but an uncontested arrival" Orwellian euphemism coming from the White House?

It's not me stating that Russia had declared war on Ukraine by sending troops into the Crimea region...it was the OP and according to him, the regional media. While some of the actions committed by the Russian Federation may be seen to be declarations of war, the actions were done without any *public* involvement from Russia itself. For example, there are masked men raiding key areas of Crimea. We suspect that they are Russian operatives, but without Russia's confirmation, or any direct link, it can be said that they have not declared war on Ukraine. As such, i do maintain that Russia has not declared war on Ukraine, at least through its public actions.

Put foreign boots on sovereign soil without permission... war!

Catacomb
I truly believe we are on the verge of World War Three.

Not a single shot has been fired and yet average ATSers, in their tendency to emotionally overreact, deem this little feud "the verge of WWIII".

reply to post by daaskapital


So you have never created anti-american threads?? okay, I must be imagining all that... What's funny is that if the roles were reversed and the US was doing this to some country you would be all over them...

So everyone believes that Russia has a military presence in Crimea, but without a declaration of war from Putin himself its not good enough for you...

I honestly can't believe you think that is a declaration of war from Ukraine.. Russia votes that military intervention would be okay, so Ukraine puts their own military on alert and you consider that them declaring war on Russia???

reply to post by daaskapital


You mean Ukraine is threatening to defend herself from an invading force.

doompornjunkie

daaskapital

METACOMET

daaskapital
The title is misleading. Russia has not declared war on Ukraine - even if some media outlets have suggested as much.

Russia, while having an estimated 15,000 soldiers in the Crimea region of Ukraine, have acted strictly within agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. So no, Russia has not declared war. If they had done so, we would have already seen the USA and other nation-states act to aid the Ukrainian state.

With all this said, it is Ukraine which has threatened war with Russia.

A declaration of war? What is this, 1941?

Are you buying the "not necessarily an invasion but an uncontested arrival" Orwellian euphemism coming from the White House?

It's not me stating that Russia had declared war on Ukraine by sending troops into the Crimea region...it was the OP and according to him, the regional media. While some of the actions committed by the Russian Federation may be seen to be declarations of war, the actions were done without any *public* involvement from Russia itself. For example, there are masked men raiding key areas of Crimea. We suspect that they are Russian operatives, but without Russia's confirmation, or any direct link, it can be said that they have not declared war on Ukraine. As such, i do maintain that Russia has not declared war on Ukraine, at least through its public actions.

Put foreign boots on sovereign soil without permission... war!

Ukraine had leased military bases in the Crimea region to Russia until the year 2017. Russia was also allowed to transport troops into the Crimea region, across the border, without any agreement from the Ukrainian state. That was until 2008, when it was overturned. That law may have been again overturned during talks between Russia and Yanukovych in 2010 though. That needs more looking in to.

thesaneone
reply to post by daaskapital

 

You mean Ukraine is threatening to defend herself from an invading force.

Yes, apparently assembling your own troops on your own soil is declaring war. In the other hand putting your boots on anothers soil isn't war.

jhn7537
reply to post by daaskapital

 

So you have never created anti-american threads?? okay, I must be imagining all that... What's funny is that if the roles were reversed and the US was doing this to some country you would be all over them...

So everyone believes that Russia has a military presence in Crimea, but without a declaration of war from Putin himself its not good enough for you...

I honestly can't believe you think that is a declaration of war from Ukraine.. Russia votes that military intervention would be okay, so Ukraine puts their own military on alert and you consider that them declaring war on Russia???

edit on 2-3-2014 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)

You are American, so of course you will view any critical thread of your country as an anti-American piece. With that said, i have not made an 'anti-American' thread in quite some time.

No i wouldn't be all over the USA. I would be looking at the situation, and all the events which would occur, in order to make a decision.

No.

I do not think that what Ukraine done was a declaration of war. You are twisting my words. I said that it was a threat of war...and it was.

reply to post by daaskapital


How is that a threat of war?? Russia is threatening war, while Ukraine is stating they will defend themselves on their own soil... There is a big difference between what Russia is doing and what Ukraine has done. Can't believe you are defending this view.

daaskapital

jhn7537
reply to post by daaskapital

 

So you have never created anti-american threads?? okay, I must be imagining all that... What's funny is that if the roles were reversed and the US was doing this to some country you would be all over them...

So everyone believes that Russia has a military presence in Crimea, but without a declaration of war from Putin himself its not good enough for you...

I honestly can't believe you think that is a declaration of war from Ukraine.. Russia votes that military intervention would be okay, so Ukraine puts their own military on alert and you consider that them declaring war on Russia???

edit on 2-3-2014 by jhn7537 because: (no reason given)

You are American, so of course you will view any critical thread of your country as an anti-American piece. With that said, i have not made an 'anti-American' thread in quite some time.

No i wouldn't be all over the USA. I would be looking at the situation, and all the events which would occur, in order to make a decision.

No.

I do not think that what Ukraine done was a declaration of war. You are twisting my words. I said that it was a threat of war...and it was.

No, that's pure and simple defense. Do you sit on ur arse when someone breaks into your house until he states "hello, i'm breaking into your house". Nooooooo you nip that # in the arse.

stirling
Ahyep riiight they have Spetznatz soldiers attacking and destroying an airport control tower disabling the whole airport....
Thousands of Russian troops and sailors at important strategic places in the Ukraine...but the russians didn't declare war so it ok....??
Reinforcing their Military with hinds seems aggressive don't you think?

Where did you see Russian SWAT?
Below official info from State Border Guard Service of Ukraine:
"As of March 1 morning checkpoint" Simferopol-Avia "continue to surround by armed individuals who do not interfere with control services", - reported in the State Border Guard Service of Ukraine.
A group of armed men in military uniform unmarked captured airport "Simferopol" in Crimea on Friday night.
February 27 Crimean parliament appointed a referendum on expanding the powers of autonomy and sacked the government and autonomy freed Anatoly Mogilev as chairman of the Council of Ministers of the ARC. Referendum held on March 30. The new Prime Minister of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea is appointed member of the Supreme Council of Crimea, leader of the "Russian Unity" Sergey Aksenov.

doompornjunkie
Put foreign boots on sovereign soil without permission... war!

Or if you're not comfortable using the term "war" for it, then "invasion" works just fine. For everyone thinking it's NBD, Russia's got the right, let's ponder a comparable situation I'm going to conjure out of thin air here:

Hypothetically, let's say the Mariana Islands are in turmoil; some want to stay with the US while others want to go to Japan. Let's say Japan throws us for a total loop, and jumps at the chance to get Saipan back, and puts soldiers on it in effort to retake it. It wouldn't matter much if half the population wanted to go back to being Japanese-held territory, because they'd still be under jurisdiction of the US. They'd likely vote to secede first if they could (unless I'm confused on this aspect, which I probably am)

Again, this is US territory, I'd assume the US' answer to Japan trying to take it back would be "Hell no, go home." Let's say instead of doing that, they bring in more troops. This, at the very least, is an invasion.

It's a sloppy comparison (it's 2am and I'm tired) but I hope the point is understandable.

jhn7537
reply to post by daaskapital

 

How is that a threat of war?? Russia is threatening war, while Ukraine is stating they will defend themselves on their own soil... There is a big difference between what Russia is doing and what Ukraine has done. Can't believe you are defending this view.

Russia is publicly acting under strict conditions, agreed upon between them and Ukraine. Their obvious clandestine activity though, may be considered as a declaration of war. That being said, since they have not been proven to have ties to that activity, then i guess there is nothing which can be done about it.

Ukraine, while defending itself has said that they will go to war if Russia intervened further. Raising the spectre of war against Russia is a threat, even if they are only doing it as a defensive tactic.

I support no one in this incident, as both sides are clearly playing it up.

Nyiah

doompornjunkie
Put foreign boots on sovereign soil without permission... war!

Or if you're not comfortable using the term "war" for it, then "invasion" works just fine. For everyone thinking it's NBD, Russia's got the right, let's ponder a comparable situation I'm going to conjure out of thin air here:

Hypothetically, let's say the Mariana Islands are in turmoil; some want to stay with the US while others want to go to Japan. Let's say Japan throws us for a total loop, and jumps at the chance to get Saipan back, and puts soldiers on it in effort to retake it. It wouldn't matter much if half the population wanted to go back to being Japanese-held territory, because they'd still be under jurisdiction of the US. They'd likely vote to secede first if they could (unless I'm confused on this aspect, which I probably am)

Again, this is US territory, I'd assume the US' answer to Japan trying to take it back would be "Hell no, go home." Let's say instead of doing that, they bring in more troops. This, at the very least, is an invasion.

It's a sloppy comparison (it's 2am and I'm tired) but I hope the point is understandable.

An invasion is a type of war.

doompornjunkie
Put foreign boots on sovereign soil without permission... war!

War? No war. War is so mid-last century, a thing of the past.

Instead we will gather a coalition of the willing against the forces of darkness and commence Operation "Definitely not a War-Freedom-Peace-Miley Cyrus".



It'll be on CNN, so buy some snacks. Peace at any cost!

doompornjunkie
An invasion is a type of war.

I know that, but a lot of people don't see it that way without an officially made & accepted declaration. I'm giving a comparable hypothetical for pondering. The shoe on our foot, if you will.

daaskapital

jhn7537
reply to post by daaskapital

 

How is that a threat of war?? Russia is threatening war, while Ukraine is stating they will defend themselves on their own soil... There is a big difference between what Russia is doing and what Ukraine has done. Can't believe you are defending this view.

Russia is publicly acting under strict conditions, agreed upon between them and Ukraine. Their obvious clandestine activity though, may be considered as a declaration of war. That being said, since they have not been proven to have ties to that activity, then i guess there is nothing which can be done about it.

Ukraine, while defending itself has said that they will go to war if Russia intervened further. Raising the spectre of war against Russia is a threat, even if they are only doing it as a defensive tactic.

I support no one in this incident, as both sides are clearly playing it up.

Should Russian troops ever threat or actually but boots on US soil you can bet damn well I'll be with the masses slinging hypersonic pieces of lead at them. Declared or not. Call me a typical American, or cowboy or whatever you want. You just don't do it! It means all out absolute war.

daaskapital

doompornjunkie

daaskapital

METACOMET

daaskapital
The title is misleading. Russia has not declared war on Ukraine - even if some media outlets have suggested as much.

Russia, while having an estimated 15,000 soldiers in the Crimea region of Ukraine, have acted strictly within agreements made between it and the Ukrainian state. So no, Russia has not declared war. If they had done so, we would have already seen the USA and other nation-states act to aid the Ukrainian state.

With all this said, it is Ukraine which has threatened war with Russia.

A declaration of war? What is this, 1941?

Are you buying the "not necessarily an invasion but an uncontested arrival" Orwellian euphemism coming from the White House?

It's not me stating that Russia had declared war on Ukraine by sending troops into the Crimea region...it was the OP and according to him, the regional media. While some of the actions committed by the Russian Federation may be seen to be declarations of war, the actions were done without any *public* involvement from Russia itself. For example, there are masked men raiding key areas of Crimea. We suspect that they are Russian operatives, but without Russia's confirmation, or any direct link, it can be said that they have not declared war on Ukraine. As such, i do maintain that Russia has not declared war on Ukraine, at least through its public actions.

Put foreign boots on sovereign soil without permission... war!

Ukraine had leased military bases in the Crimea region to Russia until the year 2017. Russia was also allowed to transport troops into the Crimea region, across the border, without any agreement from the Ukrainian state. That was until 2008, when it was overturned. That law may have been again overturned during talks between Russia and Yanukovych in 2010 though. That needs more looking in to.

This agreement didnt give them the right to station troops in the airport or government buildings in the area, Like it or not thats an occupation and it maybe met with force.Your playing games with semantics. As far as Ukraine declaring war no they didnt they said if you bring Russian troops into our country we will consider this an act of war and will fight. This whole thing can be avoided putin simply puts his toys back in the box and goes home and this is done. By the way you dont need 15000 troops to protect one naval base but of course in your world i guess they do because i gues you figure the Russian military is just so pathetic that 15000 is what the use as security guards right?