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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 01:42 PM
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For those wishing to send economic aid in the billions of dollars / euro / pounds, well, that money is going straight to pay Ukrains debts, Gas to Gasprom to a tune of almost 2 billion and RISING, then there is other financial instruments Ukraine has to pay off.

You are throwing your money into the fire.




posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Wookiep
 


I found this as well,


www.washingtonpost.com... 99f9_story.html






KIEV, Ukraine — Ukraine’s government mobilized military reservists and approved an emergency military build-up a day after the disputed province of Crimea voted to secede from the country and become part of Russia.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.

ETA this also -

Even here, few see a military option. Barring a significant new Russian incursion into eastern or southern Ukraine, a major fight is considered unlikely.


I think they just feel left to the wolves..
edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:00 PM
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Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:07 PM
link   

shappy

Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?


How can people steal their own country they decided there president was corrupt which he was and removed him. If anything its exactly opposite. As far as a foriegn country entering their country with weapons imposing there will is called an invasion. You can make excuses all day long it doesnt make it right. Its like the Ukrainians sending troops to Moscow to protect ethnic Ukrainians i dont think Putin would see it any other way than an invasion.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:08 PM
link   

dragonridr

shappy

Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?


How can people steal their own country they decided there president was corrupt which he was and removed him. If anything its exactly opposite. As far as a foriegn country entering their country with weapons imposing there will is called an invasion. You can make excuses all day long it doesnt make it right. Its like the Ukrainians sending troops to Moscow to protect ethnic Ukrainians i dont think Putin would see it any other way than an invasion.


By the same way Russia invaded it's own base there.

Some people claimed the Crimean people where forced at gunpoint to vote, I have yet to see a Crimean granny with an AK47 or Tank barrel at her head. ( I have yet to see a tank there at all).
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:10 PM
link   

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?


How can people steal their own country they decided there president was corrupt which he was and removed him. If anything its exactly opposite. As far as a foriegn country entering their country with weapons imposing there will is called an invasion. You can make excuses all day long it doesnt make it right. Its like the Ukrainians sending troops to Moscow to protect ethnic Ukrainians i dont think Putin would see it any other way than an invasion.


By the same way Russia invaded it's own base there.


They were not on there base if they were we wouldnt be having this conversation would we?



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:11 PM
link   

dragonridr

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?


How can people steal their own country they decided there president was corrupt which he was and removed him. If anything its exactly opposite. As far as a foriegn country entering their country with weapons imposing there will is called an invasion. You can make excuses all day long it doesnt make it right. Its like the Ukrainians sending troops to Moscow to protect ethnic Ukrainians i dont think Putin would see it any other way than an invasion.


By the same way Russia invaded it's own base there.


They were not on there base if they were we wouldnt be having this conversation would we?


If the EU and US was not interfeering and people from other countries acting as agent provoketeurs we would not be having this converstation.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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reply to post by shappy
 


Not to mention it was a part of their country given to them by Russia in the first place (without asking the people of that region if they wanted to become Ukrainians at the time).

I find it incredible that the U.S can ratchet up it's rhetoric about freedom and democracy and the right for people to have self-determination in countries like Egypt or Libya but when the Crimean people VOTE to secede from the Ukraine it's somehow illegitimate and illegal. Just let them go. They don't want to be part of the Ukraine, so let them join Russia if that is what they want and be done with it all.

But it's really not that easy is it? Because if this was only about self determination and democracy, the issue would have been settled with the Crimean referendum. No... It's about money, power, and strategic posturing (like it always is).
edit on 17-3-2014 by DeadSeraph because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:14 PM
link   

dragonridr

shappy

Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?


How can people steal their own country they decided there president was corrupt which he was and removed him. If anything its exactly opposite. As far as a foriegn country entering their country with weapons imposing there will is called an invasion. You can make excuses all day long it doesnt make it right. Its like the Ukrainians sending troops to Moscow to protect ethnic Ukrainians i dont think Putin would see it any other way than an invasion.


Forgive me for playing 'catch up' here, but I was under the impression that after all the hooha of the president wanting to go with Russia and not the EU, there were mass protests (please lets not go into who was behind it just now), as a result he said he would step down and let the country have an election for a new President.....then the proverbial hit the fan.....just asking.

Rainbows
Jane



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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Ukraine’s military is far smaller than Russia’s, but there are 3 reasons it might not be so easy to crush


www.washingtonpost.com... y-to-crush/




I had the impression Ukraine's military was dated, not sure why, maybe I read it somewhere in this thread?
edit on 17-3-2014 by Im2keul because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:36 PM
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Thought I'd post this here too

A link to the agreement signed to protect Ukraine.

en.wikipedia.org...



And the agreements Putin has broken


Mr. Putin’s outrageous conduct has violated no fewer than seven international agreements and conventions: The United Nations Charter, the Helsinki Accords, the Charter of the Council for Security and Co-operation (CSCE) in Europe, two Russian-Ukrainian agreements regarding the placement of Russia’s fleet in Crimea (with guarantees and acknowledgement of sovereignty and Ukraine’s borders), the 1997 Russia-Ukraine Friendship Agreement (with similar guarantees of sovereignty and borders), and the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, stipulating security assurances relating to Ukraine’s accession to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons.



edit on 17-3-2014 by stargatetravels because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by Im2keul
 


Much of it's hardware is soviet era. Also, a good portion of it's air force is under lock and key in the Crimea right now and the Russians have no plans to let the Ukrainians reclaim those assets. So while their equipment could be considered dated by American standards, much of it is on par with what Russia has fielded at the moment. Russians have some more advanced tech in the works but most of it isn't in production yet. Where the Ukraine has strength is in it's armored divisions as it has 1100 operational tanks and 1400+ in reserve, with an extremely large number of APC's and infantry fighting vehicles like the BMP-2. It's Airforce however is dwarfed by that of Russia, as is it's navy.

The Ukraine would almost certainly lose a conventional war with Russia, but it would be a bloody mess before it ended, and they are capable of inflicting large amounts of casualties to Russian invaders. Definitely a scenario that is best avoided.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:50 PM
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Former Putin Advisor Sounds The Alarm: Putin Has Already Declared War On Kiev

Quote: Putin’s goal is the destruction of pro-Western authority in Ukraine, the total humiliation of the West, and a makeover of the geopolitical balance

www.forbes.com...



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:58 PM
link   

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?


How can people steal their own country they decided there president was corrupt which he was and removed him. If anything its exactly opposite. As far as a foriegn country entering their country with weapons imposing there will is called an invasion. You can make excuses all day long it doesnt make it right. Its like the Ukrainians sending troops to Moscow to protect ethnic Ukrainians i dont think Putin would see it any other way than an invasion.


By the same way Russia invaded it's own base there.


They were not on there base if they were we wouldnt be having this conversation would we?


If the EU and US was not interfeering and people from other countries acting as agent provoketeurs we would not be having this converstation.


The US want involved this was entirely the EU and second Russia doesnt have the right to decide who Ukrainian people want to make deals with its called free market. I know Russians dont understand this concept being they arrest anyone who doesnt agree with Putin. Oh not to mention the fact tell the press what they can and cant say. So odd a group of people would rather be more like europe than a dictatorship how dare those insolent peasants.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 02:59 PM
link   

dragonridr

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?


How can people steal their own country they decided there president was corrupt which he was and removed him. If anything its exactly opposite. As far as a foriegn country entering their country with weapons imposing there will is called an invasion. You can make excuses all day long it doesnt make it right. Its like the Ukrainians sending troops to Moscow to protect ethnic Ukrainians i dont think Putin would see it any other way than an invasion.


By the same way Russia invaded it's own base there.


They were not on there base if they were we wouldnt be having this conversation would we?


If the EU and US was not interfeering and people from other countries acting as agent provoketeurs we would not be having this converstation.


The US want involved this was entirely the EU and second Russia doesnt have the right to decide who Ukrainian people want to make deals with its called free market. I know Russians dont understand this concept being they arrest anyone who doesnt agree with Putin. Oh not to mention the fact tell the press what they can and cant say. So odd a group of people would rather be more like europe than a dictatorship how dare those insolent peasants.


And the Ukranian parliment decided to take the deal with Russia, it was better, with no conditions.

And, the people of Crimea were given the right to decide their own future, so please, don't go off preaching about the right to decide since that is what the US and EU want to prevent!

You cannot have your cake and eat it, pick one. Eat it or keep it.

I do believe they arrested violent protesters. Same in most countries.
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 03:03 PM
link   

DeadSeraph
reply to post by Im2keul
 


Much of it's hardware is soviet era. Also, a good portion of it's air force is under lock and key in the Crimea right now and the Russians have no plans to let the Ukrainians reclaim those assets. So while their equipment could be considered dated by American standards, much of it is on par with what Russia has fielded at the moment. Russians have some more advanced tech in the works but most of it isn't in production yet. Where the Ukraine has strength is in it's armored divisions as it has 1100 operational tanks and 1400+ in reserve, with an extremely large number of APC's and infantry fighting vehicles like the BMP-2. It's Airforce however is dwarfed by that of Russia, as is it's navy.

The Ukraine would almost certainly lose a conventional war with Russia, but it would be a bloody mess before it ended, and they are capable of inflicting large amounts of casualties to Russian invaders. Definitely a scenario that is best avoided.


Yeah and dont think help not going to be coming from poland as well. And theres something else many people dont realize Ukraine is the sixth largest arms dealer in the world in fact Chinas a major client. They still have some chinese projects sitting around including some new anti aircraft batteries based off the same thing the Russians moved into Crimea only longer range.As far as tech goes Ukraine isnt that far behind the russians they produce an exact copy of the su 27 as well.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 03:09 PM
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reply to post by Fingle
 


The chap in that Forbes article




Illarionov has also been a proponent of secession of Chechnya.[5]


en.wikipedia.org...

I'd say he's caught himself between a rock and a hard place...but meh...what do I know of double agents???

Rainbows
Jane



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 03:12 PM
link   



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 03:16 PM
link   

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

dragonridr

shappy

Wookiep
reply to post by Im2keul
 


It could be possible that Ukraine is getting desperate for some support, they may be just posturing? One thing is for sure, they aren't happy with the lack of support..

As Ukrainians brace to lose Crimea, many are also disappointed with the West


“Sanctions against a few people? How is that going to help us against Russia?” laughed Vorontsov, owner of a small Internet cafe, who signed up to join a new force of 60,000 reservists that Kiev hopes will bolster Ukrainian defenses in the event of a full-blown war with Russia.

“The Russians are taking a piece of our country, and where is the West? Europe and the United States have abandoned us.”


^I think this is the general sentiment around the globe.


I find it rich them complaining about Russia taking a "small peice of their country" when they took the entire country by a forced coup. Is there no honour amongst theives?


How can people steal their own country they decided there president was corrupt which he was and removed him. If anything its exactly opposite. As far as a foriegn country entering their country with weapons imposing there will is called an invasion. You can make excuses all day long it doesnt make it right. Its like the Ukrainians sending troops to Moscow to protect ethnic Ukrainians i dont think Putin would see it any other way than an invasion.


By the same way Russia invaded it's own base there.


They were not on there base if they were we wouldnt be having this conversation would we?


If the EU and US was not interfeering and people from other countries acting as agent provoketeurs we would not be having this converstation.


The US want involved this was entirely the EU and second Russia doesnt have the right to decide who Ukrainian people want to make deals with its called free market. I know Russians dont understand this concept being they arrest anyone who doesnt agree with Putin. Oh not to mention the fact tell the press what they can and cant say. So odd a group of people would rather be more like europe than a dictatorship how dare those insolent peasants.


And the Ukranian parliment decided to take the deal with Russia, it was better, with no conditions.

And, the people of Crimea were given the right to decide their own future, so please, don't go off preaching about the right to decide since that is what the US and EU want to prevent!

You cannot have your cake and eat it, pick one. Eat it or keep it.

I do believe they arrested violent protesters. Same in most countries.
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)


No they arrest any protesters and put them in prison without trial for years. Because Putin being a dictator suspended the rights granted them in the Russian constitution. And If you mean by violent protesters people that scream loud no countries dont do like the russians nice try though suggest you take a look at those terrible terrorists like Pussy riot yeah those four girls are violent all right. If they tried to do anything violent people would just laugh.



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