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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:05 AM
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Wookiep
reply to post by shappy
 





Have UK, US, France or Poland been invaded yet? Did I miss the news?



Because I'm a nice guy and am really rooting for you to just be someone with really bad reading comprehension skills, I will point it out for you. This is a freebee and I WON'T point it out again, got it? I'll even make the letters big for you!

From the NPT concerning Ukraine -




Before voting on accession, Ukraine demanded from Russia, the USA, France and the United Kingdom a written statement that these powers undertook to extend the security guarantees to Ukraine.




Russia, the UK and the USA undertake to respect Ukraine's borders in accordance with the principles of the 1975 CSCE Final Act, to abstain from the use or threat of force against Ukraine, to support Ukraine where an attempt is made to place pressure on it by economic coercion, and to bring any incident of aggression by a nuclear power before the UN Security Council.


Source

Now if you can't see how the U.K., The U.S., even FRANCE has an obligation here, then I can't help you. Poland did NOT sign the NPT, Poland is ALSO a NATO member and they have already expressed their interests in this and want military intervention.


edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)


I am also equally generous and nice, can you show me where NATO has any involvement in NPT except from their member states?

Being a NATO member is not carte blance for NATO being involved, however NATO will defend their members if attacked, so far that has not happened, that was and is the purpose of NATO.




posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:06 AM
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Russia isn't stupid

She won't dear toy with NATO

Ukraine is another matter altogether

Bit NATO will steamroll Russia out of Eastern Ukraine for sure

Both sides need to let of steam and bloody each other's nose, I have a real feeling both sides have agreed to have a quick skirmish with each other inside Ukraine, and call a truce

NATO commanders are aching to teach Russia a lesson and Russia is delusional about its military strength and hardware

It's all to frustrating for Russia to be losing on its war with the west across the globe and repeatedly taking silver, they need to be able to vent there frustration and NATO also needs to vent there anger at Russia constantly throwing a spanner in the works and humping its leg



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:09 AM
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Lol you are so hypocritical !! Tell me one thing . Why did russia even invade crimea ? Did they as you so put it 'invade' russia ? NO ? So why is russian military even in crimea apart from the numbers agreed ?
Now if you say they felt threatened by neo fascists in kiev why does that matter. Those neo fascist did not 'invade' russia did they ? Lol eat your own words hahaha !!



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:10 AM
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Foxtrot7x
Lol you are so hypocritical !! Tell me one thing . Why did russia even invade crimea ? Did they as you so put it 'invade' russia ? NO ? So why is russian military even in crimea apart from the numbers agreed ?
Now if you say they felt threatened by neo fascists in kiev why does that matter. Those neo fascist did not 'invade' russia did they ? Lol eat your own words hahaha !!


You can you invade your own base?

I know yanks have Friendly Fire perfected but I don't think Russians are that poor of an aim.
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:10 AM
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reply to post by shappy
 





Being a NATO member is not carte blance for NATO being involved


Right, I don't dispute that. However, if those 4 major players are involved mark my words the rest will be in some fashion. You can make the statement that those countries aren't being attacked till your blue but NATO will involve itself if those players get involved.
edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:15 AM
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Wookiep
reply to post by shappy
 





Being a NATO member is not carte blance for NATO being involved


Right, I don't dispute that. However, if those 4 major players are involved mark my words the rest will be in some fashion. You can make the statement that those countries aren't being attacked till your blue but NATO will involve itself if those players get involved.
edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)


And that is why my country is Not in NATO and is neutral.

We don't want dragged into your bloody mess that is honestly and frankly, manufactured.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:17 AM
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Foxtrot7x
@Phoenix .. U totally seem to have missed the point. First Ukraine has a treaty allowing Russian troops only in crimean black sea fleet and not all of Ukraine.
Secondly: As bad as it is , we agree crimea is russisn by now . The point is russia has a lot of further ambitions namely eastern Ukraine and recent incursions and comments suggest they are moving forward it it. Certainly Russia has no right to have troops there right ? Lol . And that is where NATO defensive posturing comes to play . I don't see what's so difficult in understanding that.



I don't see why you do not get it.

International Law is dead, has been for some time. The US is staggering around the world like a drunken sailor forcing regime change after regime change, attacking other countries, imposing their will on people such as Iraq, Afghanistan all because they can.

The Geneva Convention on Warfare is dead, that was easy, there are no more enemy soldiers, everyone who disagrees with the US Government is a Terrorist, including their own population and Terrorists have no rights anywhere.

The US Constitution and the Bill of Rights is just a few scraps of paper now.

So what, you want Putin to back down!

I don't!

I would prefer someone else, but no one except Putin has stepped up to the plate.

So I guess it's GO PUTIN, and aye, may the saints preserve us.

P

edit on 17/3/2014 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:20 AM
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Lol is the whole of crimea , the buildings,and other outposts Russian base ? I'm sorry I didn't know crimea was a russian base . So if US has a base in say istanbul then the whole of Istanbul is a russian base ? Can u please explain to me how thay is .



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:20 AM
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reply to post by pheonix358
 


You know, I've been somewhat of an activist against the corruption that has persisted in the U.S. with the rigged votes and 2 party system, and the FED etc... (see my sig sometime)

But to hear these words -




So I guess it's GO PUTIN, and ay the saints preserve us.


Really and truly make me feel sorry for you. I don't mean to say that to mock or be mean... I mean I truly feel really sorry for you.

edit on 17-3-2014 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:23 AM
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reply to post by Wookiep
 





Really and truly make me feel sorry for you. I don't mean to say that to mock or be mean... I mean I truly feel sorry for you.



Well, it is him or the Bankers!

I am not rooting the Bankers so I guess, it is still Go Putin, unless you have someone else who will step up!

No? Well then!

P



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:24 AM
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Foxtrot7x
Lol is the whole of crimea , the buildings,and other outposts Russian base ? I'm sorry I didn't know crimea was a russian base . So if US has a base in say istanbul then the whole of Istanbul is a russian base ? Can u please explain to me how thay is .


So far I have seen local defence forces outside their agreements, Russia can be at their base and also allowed MOVEMENT around crimea in a controlled way according to their agreement, after all if they cannot move under agreement outside their base, how do they get in and out
LOL

You do also know it is not against rules of war to volunteer for other countries, and not against rules of war to wear unbadged uniforms, it is against rules of war called en.wikipedia.org... Perfidy for improper use of surrender white flags and impersonating the other side and also using medic facilities as assets, that is why you leave your weapons outside medic places.

Putin knows the law, and how to use it. USA just pisses all over it, Putin works within it and he knows breaking the law is giving ammo against him and he will NOT give that ammo to the US to use against him, so far all the ammo given by the US / UK is friendly fire ammo handed to Putin to use against you.

He is not stupid.
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:24 AM
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I imagine the best option for Putin now is to do nothing. Literally.

There won't be any sanctions with teeth bought in, lest the Russians say 'Hey, we now take gold/rubles/yuan/reals/Euros for all our energy'.

Wait six months to a year for the EU to get it's hands on Ukraine and bring in the austerity measures and debt restructuring.

Then watch Ukraine riot again.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:26 AM
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khimbar
I imagine the best option for Putin now is to do nothing. Literally.

There won't be any sanctions with teeth bought in, lest the Russians say 'Hey, we now take gold/rubles/yuan/reals/Euros for all our energy'.

Wait six months to a year for the EU to get it's hands on Ukraine and bring in the austerity measures and debt restructuring.

Then watch Ukraine riot again.


The west doesn't like it because their plan for Ukraine is not going . as planned.

Putin is just using the rules against you, as you did in Kosov et al.

Honestly the hypocracy is astounding. An honest person cannot honestly dictate to others not to do as they done. Common bloody sense people.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:28 AM
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reply to post by pheonix358
 


That's part of what makes me so sad to see those words... You really genuinely believe that Putin is better than those bankers. Putin is just as corrupt as those bankers if not worse!

We might be heading for a police state now in the U.S. things might be corrupt here yep, we're on the wrong path. But for you to be so ignorant about Putin the time he came from, what the former Soviet Union was like.. As bad as it sucks in the U.S. we still AREN'T there! I used to like RT but screw that, their propaganda has gone too far.

I think the only way you may find out is if Russia were to take over the world. It's the only way you would really understand. Again, really sad and I feel really bad for you.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:32 AM
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Self defence forces ?? Siriusly ?? With russian armour and veichles ? And pray tell me is it also allowed for them in the agreement to surround Ukrainian army compounds ? Wow what an agreement . Are you sure it wasn't written and signed by a russian in disguise ?



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:34 AM
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shappy

khimbar
I imagine the best option for Putin now is to do nothing. Literally.

There won't be any sanctions with teeth bought in, lest the Russians say 'Hey, we now take gold/rubles/yuan/reals/Euros for all our energy'.

Wait six months to a year for the EU to get it's hands on Ukraine and bring in the austerity measures and debt restructuring.

Then watch Ukraine riot again.


The west doesn't like it because their plan for Ukraine is not going . as planned.

Putin is just using the rules against you, as you did in Kosov et al.

Honestly the hypocracy is astounding. An honest person cannot honestly dictate to others not to do as they done. Common bloody sense people.


I've read this a few times, and honestly can't see how this is in any way a reply to my post that you've quoted.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:34 AM
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Foxtrot7x
Self defence forces ?? Siriusly ?? With russian armour and veichles ? And pray tell me is it also allowed for them in the agreement to surround Ukrainian army compounds ? Wow what an agreement . Are you sure it wasn't written and signed by a russian in disguise ?


I do believe US and UK weapons and armour can be found in other countries too.

In fact I can walk into town and buy gear the same as in many other countries, maybe not tanks (because I am not that rich
) but certinally camos etc.

You are also forgetting both Crimea and the last president of Ukraine asked for Russia's help, they got it or somebody privately sent it ehm. Either way, if you have proof that can bust Putin you better send it to the UN or call a News outlet, wouldn't that be the right thing to do instead of posting it on a niche forum?
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:38 AM
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Lol going by your own words , if Poland nato us eu send in unbagded troops and ukraine proclaims them as self defence troops , that be okay with you sir ?? Lol self defence .. So naive lol . I dun wanna argue with you anymore lol .. Waste of my time.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:39 AM
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shappy I am also equally generous and nice, can you show me where NATO has any involvement in NPT except from their member states?


Maybe it would be wise to read over the articles of the NATO-Ukraine Commission (NUC)


16.NATO welcomes and supports the fact that Ukraine received security assurances from all five nuclear-weapon states parties to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons (NPT) as a non-nuclear weapon state party to the NPT, and recalls the commitments undertaken by the United States and the United Kingdom, together with Russia, and by France unilaterally, which took the historic decision in Budapest in 1994 to provide Ukraine with security assurances as a non-nuclear weapon state party to the NPT.
(Bold mine)

Now, would it be possible to get back to the intention of this thread.... which is for updates... not the debate of personal opinion? It's greatly disrepectful to our OP, who let's not forget, is currently in the country where these events are unfolding? That would be great. If you want to debate further... I suggest you get your 20 posts in and start your own thread, I am sure there are others that would love to join you in that futile endeavour.



posted on Mar, 17 2014 @ 06:40 AM
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Foxtrot7x
Lol going by your own words , if Poland nato us eu send in unbagded troops and ukraine proclaims them as self defence troops , that be okay with you sir ?? Lol self defence .. So naive lol . I dun wanna argue with you anymore lol .. Waste of my time.


Well as long as you are following the laws then I don't see why not.

I didn't write the rules of war. If you have information on a rule that volunteers of the local defence force are breaking, can you link the rule number the person who broke it, and where and when please?

I do believe US, Germany and UK already have people on the ground in Ukraine. Whether they admit it or not well, you will have to take their honest word for it I supose. I am sure they would never lie to a citizen.
edit on 17-3-2014 by shappy because: (no reason given)



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