Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

What choice is there now on the table in all serious?

Option 1,

Let Russia annex Crimea after the large percentage of Crimea want to join the Russian Fed.

Option 2,

Continue strategic planning and the preparation to safeguard the mainland Ukrainian borders (excluding Crimea) and it peoples from danger. Rebuild the constitution with a fair balloted vote for a fixed term president, re-establish the key strengths of the Ukrainian Armed Forces including intelligence with international support i.e. new weaponry, vehicles and technological advances to protect the country.

Once most of ukraine is stable a consideration to start diplomatic talks again with Russia to take back Crimea and promise and fair referendum if they want to separate with a few deals to ensure the protection for a both Ukraine and a independent Crimea.

Option 3,

Fight back for Crimea and protect Ukraine from any more provocation by Russian and Pro Russian forces. Flock in the international support maybe wish for a united military intervention. The consequences could be very dire and rile bloodbath.

Tensions between Russia will be at it's highest since the cold war with NATO intervention.

So as always it’s been a dance on international law (whatever that really is) with merely local volunteers groups and balaclavas, an arranged vote that can surely be counted on (in whatever way is needed) to bring harmony without a firm hold, to educate that invasion = equals protection (potentially) but always has other conditions . North, West, South, East or other will always claim strategic rights of another!!!!

Some one mentioned the media blackout on all of this. I admit that I can barely tolerate the 'news', but I have been turning to it and they are saying nothing. It's almost like...you rejected us, now get effed.

How can a nation that lost the cold war, in as much that Russia is higher on freedoms than the new amerika, bring anything good to Ukraine?

Why does Ukraine have to choose sides between one sour tit or another?

Someone orchestrated this whole mess, and the enemy is well entrenched. It is within.

That is what happens when vigilance is lost.

Remember this next time you bring a flamethrower to a hornet's nest.
Make sure to have enough fuel.

Must I cite the obvious?

L'America. Land of the technofascist.

Thread after thread.

A man in a Michigan town meeting exceeds his 3 minute time limit, and cops home in with handcuffs, saying in robotic voices "Do not Resist. Do not Resist."

I think this man's life and livliehood was targeted by the spy fascists, which is why he was speaking grievances in the first place.

Another man gives 75 cents to a beggar, and ten squads chase him down, search his car for an hour, saying: "We Saw What You Did."

We saw what you did.

A deaf wood carver artist is shot 5 times, in cold blood, because a cop sees he is carrying a small knife, and had the nerve to walk right in front of his squad, one sunny afternoon in Seattle.

How glorious.

Yeah, the west is loving every bit of this.

The enemy is within. And it is verboten, to hate, or even speak about them. They've seen to that.
You see, they are just getting started.

We saw what you did.
We saw what you did.

None of this gives Putin the right to scoop them up, however.
Godless states have a nasty habit of planting bullets in the heads of those who see things differently.

China does this day in day out. Russia may have taken a little break, but it looks like they're back in the game.

Obama is busy enslaving us, with change that, surprise, is no change at all.

This is going to be Europe's problem, and quite quickly. I think Putin wishes to go down in history, after all.

Go for it Vlad! Undoing God's work is a sure fire way to get noticed.

# 205

maddy21


China .... The biggest bubble of them all

Stop day dreaming of Chinese and Russian economy collapsing while the west is in piles and piles of Debt and not to mention more than 100million people in food stamps.. Russia will be more than happy to sell its oil,Gas and resources to China , The stuff that Europe exports can easily be purchased form elsewhere, its nothing special .. While on the other hand Europe cannot just magically change into buying oil and gas from US overnight , it takes time and effort to create the infrastructure necessary .. Chinese have already warned the west against Sanctions. The only end result of this is Russia stops depending on the west and Europe ends up loosing 100s of billions $ in exports and cheap import of Gas...

edit on 13-3-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)

The wests debt is just a tea party in comparisons to the debt looming over China, they have been lending and spending hundreds of times there GDP there city's are empty the exports are going elsewhere it's a huge huge mess that's going to go bang on a very grand scale...

So the stuff the west exports can be purchased from elsewhere? Please elaborate... Do you understand patents?

Europe can't just change its gas supplier over night? Are you under the impression there are no alternatives to gas? Like plugging the electric in etc? And nobody willing to supply it for cheaper? Also when shale gas really gets going what's Russia going to sell then? Fur coats? Snow? Vodka? Rusty tanks and AK47?

What can china do? Warned against what? Sanctions of there own you're suggesting? Are you serious do you even have any idea of the knife edge china is on with its economy, watch the video provided for god sakes, it's based on hard facts and research, I don't think China is interested in hanging itself anytime soon they've got more debt to rack up and things to build that people can't afford lol

Sorry but I'm not the one proclaiming to be superior here but when people talk BS it grinds my gears and you're clearly talking smack my friend, never mind carry on blurring your head in the sand and keep hating the West

TritonTaranis

maddy21


China .... The biggest bubble of them all

Stop day dreaming of Chinese and Russian economy collapsing while the west is in piles and piles of Debt and not to mention more than 100million people in food stamps.. Russia will be more than happy to sell its oil,Gas and resources to China , The stuff that Europe exports can easily be purchased form elsewhere, its nothing special .. While on the other hand Europe cannot just magically change into buying oil and gas from US overnight , it takes time and effort to create the infrastructure necessary .. Chinese have already warned the west against Sanctions. The only end result of this is Russia stops depending on the west and Europe ends up loosing 100s of billions $ in exports and cheap import of Gas...

edit on 13-3-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)

The wests debt is just a tea party in comparisons to the debt looming over China, they have been lending and spending hundreds of times there GDP there city's are empty the exports are going elsewhere it's a huge huge mess that's going to go bang on a very grand scale...

So the stuff the west exports can be purchased from elsewhere? Please elaborate... Do you understand patents?

Europe can't just change its gas supplier over night? Are you under the impression there are no alternatives to gas? Like plugging the electric in etc? And nobody willing to supply it for cheaper? Also when shale gas really gets going what's Russia going to sell then? Fur coats? Snow? Vodka? Rusty tanks and AK47?

What can china do? Warned against what? Sanctions of there own you're suggesting? Are you serious do you even have any idea of the knife edge china is on with its economy, watch the video provided for god sakes, it's based on hard facts and research, I don't think China is interested in hanging itself anytime soon they've got more debt to rack up and things to build that people can't afford lol

Sorry but I'm not the one proclaiming to be superior here but when people talk BS it grinds my gears and you're clearly talking smack my friend, never mind carry on blurring your head in the sand and keep hating the West

edit on 13-3-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)

You bring up a good point On China many people dont realize china is holding up their economy with worthless mortgages in empty cities with fake rentals. It goes as far as they create fake economies in the cities as well. Its a way to keep the debt off the books. But back to the thread imposed sanction hurt the Russians far more than the US or Europe thats why im amazed Putin hasnt reconsidered this yet. Then again maybe he has and looking for a way out we shall see. Hes going to destroy the Russian economy within 2 years if he doesnt rethink this and embrace the world economy. Dont think all of Europe wont look into alternatives to their gas supplier. The US just become the number one exporter in gas and this will just grow it quicker than planned because now Europeans will be willing to pay subsidies to expand this into their country. Because Putin has a cold war mentality he just destroyed his country unless he figures a way out of this.

The United States is weighing requests for military assistance from Ukraine, including both lethal and non-lethal support, two US officials said on Thursday, as a prominent US senator urged approval of any arms sought by Kiev. T

he US officials, who asked to speak on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the diplomatic discussions, said the United States had already decided to move ahead with some aid, including military food rations.

The US government was still weighing other requests, including for lethal aid, which were made through the US State Department, the officials added, without offering more details.

Earlier on Thursday, the Wall Street Journal reported that Ukraine's interim government asked for arms, ammunition and intelligence support but the United States had decided against further assistance beyond rations because of concerns about stoking tensions with Russia.

Senator John McCain said if the Journal's article were accurate, it would be "deeply disturbing."

The United States should not be imposing an arms embargo on a victim of aggression. Now is the time to show the Ukrainian government and people that the United States stands with them in their hour of greatest need.
[Reuters]

Aljazeera

Crowds in Crimea line up outside banks as countdown to referendum to break away from Ukraine sparks fear - @AFP

www.breakingnews.com...

Maluhia

Crowds in Crimea line up outside banks as countdown to referendum to break away from Ukraine sparks fear - @AFP

www.breakingnews.com...

There economy is going to be in trouble they need to convert to the Ruble as soon as they have that vote since they wont have access to money from Ukraine. Not to mention pensions student aid public assistance Russia better show up to the table with a couple of billion just to keep them going for a while.

reply to post by Wookiep

The United States is weighing requests for military assistance from Ukraine, including both lethal and non-lethal support, two US officials said on Thursday, as a prominent US senator urged approval of any arms sought by Kiev.

That is quite a funny statement.

The West overthrows a legitimate, democratically elected government (yet again!), and then has to weigh requests for military assistance from the very people they have put in power!

Do they really think we are all that stupid!

The hypocrisy in this is just staggering, it is mind numbing!

P

pheonix358
reply to post by Wookiep

 

The United States is weighing requests for military assistance from Ukraine, including both lethal and non-lethal support, two US officials said on Thursday, as a prominent US senator urged approval of any arms sought by Kiev.

That is quite a funny statement.

The West overthrows a legitimate, democratically elected government (yet again!), and then has to weigh requests for military assistance from the very people they have put in power!

Do they really think we are all that stupid!

The hypocrisy in this is just staggering, it is mind numbing!

P

edit on 13/3/2014 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)

Oh grow up the US had nothing to do with ukraine. No matter how many times you tell a lie doesnt make it true. In fact the US actually put out some arrest warrants for some of the participants in the riots. If they planned it Russia wouldn't have even made it into Crimea in the first place. Precisely because this wasnt planned is why its a huge mess. Look at egypt overnight new government up an running with banks operating police on the streets. This isnt planned and turning into a huge mess.

reply to post by dragonridr

No matter how many times you tell a lie doesnt make it true.

You should study that line and learn from it yourself. Giving the opponent the ammo to shoot back is not wise!

Ukraine has a puppet government, right now, and it was installed by the west. The proof, the phone taps, are all over this thread.

The truth wins in the end. Sometimes it takes its sweet time, but eventually truth wins over raw deceit.

P

pheonix358
reply to post by dragonridr

 

No matter how many times you tell a lie doesnt make it true.

You should study that line and learn from it yourself. Giving the opponent the ammo to shoot back is not wise!

Ukraine has a puppet government, right now, and it was installed by the west. The proof, the phone taps, are all over this thread.

The truth wins in the end. Sometimes it takes its sweet time, but eventually truth wins over raw deceit.

P

Already shown that the taps were just discussions of rumors about the snipers its been posted all over this thread how the doctor even said she had no idea about the snipers she only treated protesters and denied making any such claim.Obviously she didnt treat the police so couldnt compare the wounds. Then there is videos that were posted showing police firing at the crowd.You just choose to ignore that stuff because you would rather believe Russian propaganda.

The women they were talking about was Dr. Olga Bogomolets and they were discussing a rumor they had heard it was false but of course RT wont tell you that will they.By the way she suspects the Russians were the ones firing on the protesters it was in another article i read i think it was aljazera ill see if i can find it again.




Heres one of her statements.

Dr. Bogomolets said
"Myself I saw only protesters. I do not know the type of wounds suffered by military people," she told The Telegraph. "I have no access to those people."
But she said she had asked for a full forensic criminal investigation into the deaths that occurred in the Maidan. "No one who just sees the wounds when treating the victims can make a determination about the type of weapons. I hope international experts and Ukrainian investigators will make a determination of what type of weapons, who was involved in the killings and how it was done. I have no data to prove anything.
"I was a doctor helping to save people on the square. There were 15 people killed on the first day by snipers. They were shot directly to the heart, brain and arteries. There were more than 40 the next day, 12 of them died in my arms.
"Our nation has to ask the question who were the killers, who asked them to come to Ukraine. We need good answers on the basis of expertise."
Mr Paet's assertion that an opposition figure was behind the Maidan massacre was not one she could share.
"I think you can only say something like this on the basis of fact," she said. "Its not correct and its not good to do this. It should be based on fact."

www.telegraph.co.uk...

reply to post by dragonridr


What you say off the record to an investigator is one thing.

After your comments go viral, you may well step back and make it a whole lot of wishy washee. After all, those snipers just may want to shut the good Doctor up, permanently. Fear can change what she says. If you have studied psychology you will note the fear coming through in her interviews / statements.

Of course, you are not trying to perceive the truth, your playbook does not allow for the truth.

Your playbook is getting old, we have all read it.

P

pheonix358
reply to post by dragonridr

 

What you say off the record to an investigator is one thing.

After your comments go viral, you may well step back and make it a whole lot of wishy washee. After all, those snipers just may want to shut the good Doctor up, permanently. Fear can change what she says. If you have studied psychology you will note the fear coming through in her interviews / statements.

Of course, you are not trying to perceive the truth, your playbook does not allow for the truth.

Your playbook is getting old, we have all read it.

P

So your saying you believe Putin over her even though a doctor treating wounds wouldnt be able to tell in the first place what weapon was used or who fired it. Especially if the doctor didnt even treat the police and wouldnt have access to them? This tells me you are just a Putin lover and he can do no wrong because your willing to believe fantasy over fact. If we have video of police firing at protesters and there is no way the doctor could have even made such a statement in the first place because shes not a coroner and now way to do any ballistics testing. All that aside and your going to believe Putin some people amaze me at how easily they can be manipulated. As i said i posted proof she couldnt have made the statement since she was treating them in a lobby of a hotel and she says she didnt say that. All you have is a claim from RT who never even spoke to her about it but pulled it off an illegal tap where both parties admitted they were discussing rumors heard in Kiev. He even stated he never actually met the doctor when asked later.

So like any good little propagandist you immediately start telling lies to cover up the next. Yeah we know there arent any Russian troops in Crimea either how many times are you going to let Putin lie to you before you wake up?

reply to post by dragonridr

As i said i posted proof she couldnt have made the statement since she was treating them in a lobby of a hotel

I was a doctor helping to save people on the square. There were 15 people killed on the first day by snipers. They were shot directly to the heart, brain and arteries. There were more than 40 the next day, 12 of them died in my arms.

Well, was she in the lobby or out in the square? People under stress, and she certainly was, can make many missteps in speech let alone what translations do to her words.

As i said i posted proof she couldnt have made the statement

No you didn't! You postulated an opinion! Vastly different!

This tells me you are just a Putin lover and he can do no wrong because your willing to believe fantasy over fact.

When all else fails, go after the poster! Standard tactics from your playbook.

P

pheonix358
reply to post by dragonridr

 

As i said i posted proof she couldnt have made the statement since she was treating them in a lobby of a hotel

I was a doctor helping to save people on the square. There were 15 people killed on the first day by snipers. They were shot directly to the heart, brain and arteries. There were more than 40 the next day, 12 of them died in my arms.

Well, was she in the lobby or out in the square? People under stress, and she certainly was, can make many missteps in speech let alone what translations do to her words.

As i said i posted proof she couldnt have made the statement

No you didn't! You postulated an opinion! Vastly different!

This tells me you are just a Putin lover and he can do no wrong because your willing to believe fantasy over fact.

When all else fails, go after the poster! Standard tactics from your playbook.

P

Do you have any proof at all other than a conversation that the Russians illegally taped where both parties admit they were discussing things they heard on the streets? Meaning it isnt even second hand testimony? I didnt even bring in some statements from Kiev acusing Putin in there current investigation because there is no confirmation. So in your world you believe the doctor when she allegedly says something you agree with but when she denies saying it shes now a liar. heres a couple of more quotes for you.

Hennady Moskal, who was deputy head of the SBU, told newspapers that snipers from the Interior Ministry and SBU were responsible for the shootings, not foreign agents.
"In addition to this, snipers received orders to shoot not only protesters, but also police forces. This was all done in order to escalate the conflict, in order to justify the police operation to clear Maidan," he was quoted as saying.

zik.ua...

So once again proof the snipers were ordered to kill those people but again you prefer Russian propaganda and how do you explain the videos of police shooting at the protesters? Let me guess those werent police officers they were local militia right?

PS glad you know my playbook so well then you also know i never say anything i cant back up can you say the same?

Man Putin is pissing off the German prime minister shes getting tired of talking to him.Notice Ms. Merkel’s words she says its a threat to German security. You only hear key words like that when troops are about to come into play. Shes taking this alot more seriously the Obama.

“Ladies and gentlemen, if Russia continues on its course of the past weeks, it will not only be a catastrophe for Ukraine,” she said in a speech to the German Parliament. “We, also as neighbors of Russia, would not only see it as a threat. And it would not only change the European Union’s relationship with Russia. No, this would also cause massive damage to Russia, economically and politically.”

www.nytimes.com...

Man Putin is pissing off the German prime minister shes getting tired of talking to him.Notice Ms. Merkel’s words she says its a threat to German security. You only hear key words like that when troops are about to come into play. Shes taking this alot more seriously the Obama.

You would think that the Germans might have learnt the lesson in WW2.

At the present time it is all just words.

The problem is, the West got caught, big time, doing one of their Regime Changes. Putin will not allow that so close to his borders.

One would have thought that the West would know this. Their annalists suck.

P

Angela Merkel is a fantastic politican. She won't stand for Vladimir Putin's rubbish. This is why it's good to have her on board in the European Union because people listen to her. She reminds me of Magaret Thatcher at times. Also, the West had nothing to do with the former Ukranian Prime Minister abandoning his country. It was his 'leadership' (or lack of) and corruption which led to his downfall.

pheonix358

Man Putin is pissing off the German prime minister shes getting tired of talking to him.Notice Ms. Merkel’s words she says its a threat to German security. You only hear key words like that when troops are about to come into play. Shes taking this alot more seriously the Obama.

You would think that the Germans might have learnt the lesson in WW2.

And what exactly is that supposed to mean? No one is planing on overthrowing Putin, or invading Russia. But the Ukraine is our neighbor and we have interests in keeping our boarders stable, so...