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Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

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posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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maddy21

Foxtrot7x
China will obviously not take a hard stand against Russia as it has its own disputes with a number of countries regarding many islands and such . china doing a crimea on taiwan in the future is a distinct possibility.


Depends on how EU and US react to the annexation of Crimea , if its just idle talk with little action with a few Visa bans then am quite sure Chinese will act in the South China sea and Taiwan , and Sanctioning China would be a joke of the century so that wont happen either...
edit on 13-3-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



Unlikely Taiwan is not Ukraine they would fight creating an international mess. China wont move on Taiwan it would take a full scale invasion and China doesnt have a large enough navy to sustain the invasion and then pacify the country. They would take Taiwan with considerable losses but they would keep it long.




posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 08:41 AM
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maddy21

Foxtrot7x
China will obviously not take a hard stand against Russia as it has its own disputes with a number of countries regarding many islands and such . china doing a crimea on taiwan in the future is a distinct possibility.


Depends on how EU and US react to the annexation of Crimea , if its just idle talk with little action with a few Visa bans then am quite sure Chinese will act in the South China sea and Taiwan , and Sanctioning China would be a joke of the century so that wont happen either...
edit on 13-3-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



You post a video crammed full of unproven BS and propaganda by some bloke in his basement like its credible and fact ? Really... Is this in order to bury your head in the sand

Then Almost laugh at the fact the Crimea has been illegally invaded and occupied and "annexed" from Ukraine illegally like its in someway justifiable because of people saying it is in a conspiracy cave ? Really? We're all just ignoring international laws and the wishes of the Ukrainian people now are we?

Let's see whose laughing in a couple of months, let's see if Russia isn't disabled financially and how china will benefit making silly remarks

China .... The biggest bubble of them all


The western world isn't going to stand for it, if much of the world decided to do business elsewhere, and believe me there is many other places to invest the west being Russia and China's main floaters and the reason for there economies rise would collapse spectacularly, we will be seeing this new war playing out throughout the duration of the coming years I'd suspect,

War if Russia pushes any further, Crimea and an all out war on Russia's economy, take your cake and eat it, it's not going to be at all very difficult to do
edit on 13-3-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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All the whining now being put aside
The question has to be answered

Russia took Crimea: What are ya going to do about it


Its one thing to be a bully, but when your a popular bully, things seem to go your way a lot more often
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Well played Mr Putin Well Played



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 08:54 AM
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maddy21


This is a must watch and completely exposes the west


You do realize this was shown to be fake right? The conversation was about rumors they heard and about the doctor that treated the victims saying both bullets were the same from the police and protesters. Only when they went to talk with her she didnt treat any of the police so she didnt have access to to the police to compare. Next we have video of the police snipers firing at the crowd so if the protestors hired someone how were they working with the police?

Here you clearly see 3 officers firing at protesters



Or heres another showing them firing and killing 6 protestors.But dont think the protestors didnt start getting there own snipers this is how the police died.



Oh one more thing if you dont think theres going to be fighting in Crimea after this vote trust me there will be and people will die.
edit on 3/13/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 08:58 AM
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maddy21
Will E.U really threaten $267 Billion worth of trade with Russia over Crimea considering its delicate economic situation ??

Its probably enough to send E.U into another economic crises
www.moneynews.com...




Blackmail isn't going to work

There are repercussions coming Russia way, end of really

The question is... Will Russia want to throw away 200 billions worth of trade for Crimea? While the west picks which sanctions it wants to impose one after the other over the coming years while sourcing replacements elsewhere... The ball really isn't in Russia's or China's court, Russia relies on the EU it has a resource based economy and the west really doesn't need to totally depend on Russian has at all, china has a debt based economy and the biggest bubble the world has ever seen looming over her head and relies on the west to pay little by little each year while there debt is more than double there GDP each year, they're really not in a position to demand and laugh...

Russia is doing nothing but chasing its own tail in a rage

edit on 13-3-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 09:13 AM
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TritonTaranis

maddy21
Will E.U really threaten $267 Billion worth of trade with Russia over Crimea considering its delicate economic situation ??

Its probably enough to send E.U into another economic crises
www.moneynews.com...




Blackmail isn't going to work

There are repercussions coming Russia way, end of really

The question is... Will Russia want to throw away 200 billions worth of trade for Crimea? While the west picks which sanctions it wants to impose one after the other over the coming years while sourcing replacements elsewhere... The ball really isn't in Russia's or China's court, Russia relies on the EU it has a resource based economy and the west really doesn't need to totally depend on Russian has at all, china has a debt based economy and the biggest bubble the world has ever seen looming over her head and relies on the west to pay little by little each year while there debt is more than double there GDP each year, they're really not in a position to demand and laugh...

Russia is doing nothing but chasing its own tail in a rage

edit on 13-3-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)


Your right this is a losing proposition for Russia in the long run but the EU brought on this conflict in their search for money. Lets be honest Russia doesnt want Ukraine to be part of the EU or join NATO and honestly i dont blame them. However the only way to solve tis at this point is to assure Russia Ukraine wont become a member of NATO and maybe Putin will stop. Putin never came out of the cold war he still believes the west is trying to destroy Russia. He should have went to greater integration for a while there was talk of bringing Russia into NATO even until recently there were Russian generals in NATO headquarters. Putin didnt want to go that route and instead chose another.



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 10:18 AM
link   

TritonTaranis

maddy21

Foxtrot7x
China will obviously not take a hard stand against Russia as it has its own disputes with a number of countries regarding many islands and such . china doing a crimea on taiwan in the future is a distinct possibility.


Depends on how EU and US react to the annexation of Crimea , if its just idle talk with little action with a few Visa bans then am quite sure Chinese will act in the South China sea and Taiwan , and Sanctioning China would be a joke of the century so that wont happen either...
edit on 13-3-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



You post a video crammed full of unproven BS and propaganda by some bloke in his basement like its credible and fact ? Really... Is this in order to bury your head in the sand

Then Almost laugh at the fact the Crimea has been illegally invaded and occupied and "annexed" from Ukraine illegally like its in someway justifiable because of people saying it is in a conspiracy cave ? Really? We're all just ignoring international laws and the wishes of the Ukrainian people now are we?

Let's see whose laughing in a couple of months, let's see if Russia isn't disabled financially and how china will benefit making silly remarks

China .... The biggest bubble of them all


The western world isn't going to stand for it, if much of the world decided to do business elsewhere, and believe me there is many other places to invest the west being Russia and China's main floaters and the reason for there economies rise would collapse spectacularly, we will be seeing this new war playing out throughout the duration of the coming years I'd suspect,

War if Russia pushes any further, Crimea and an all out war on Russia's economy, take your cake and eat it, it's not going to be at all very difficult to do
edit on 13-3-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)


OH boy , your aggression almost seems like the video hit you were it hurt most , whats the point in personally attacking the person who made the video ? Does it make you feel any better ? Did your parents not teach you how to talk to people or is this Internet bravado convenient as its from behind a computer ?

The fact is Nuland herself claimed that she was spending 5$billion in Ukraine interfering in Ukraine's internal affairs..
Also fact is Nuland was caught discussing who should replace the Ukrainian government . Everyone knows America is involved there is no point in trying to defend it ...

It is also a fact that the protesters carried weapons and the Police were shot and killed...
The Video gives crystal clear evidence with sources of what kind of Neo nazi government has been replaced while the hypocrites in this forum and the US govt. blame Russia for their aggression..

The western world has the rights to murder, massacre pillage loot and steal from any country across the globe as long as it servers the interests of the west , so lets not get hyper moralistic about the western world , Stop acting like you are superior to other people .

Stop day dreaming of Chinese and Russian economy collapsing while the west is in piles and piles of Debt and not to mention more than 100million people in food stamps.. Russia will be more than happy to sell its oil,Gas and resources to China , The stuff that Europe exports can easily be purchased form elsewhere, its nothing special .. While on the other hand Europe cannot just magically change into buying oil and gas from US overnight , it takes time and effort to create the infrastructure necessary .. Chinese have already warned the west against Sanctions. The only end result of this is Russia stops depending on the west and Europe ends up loosing 100s of billions $ in exports and cheap import of Gas...
edit on 13-3-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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It will be an interesting few days ahead. John Kerry is due to meet Sergei Lavrov in London tomorrow in order to try and get this crisis sorted but it doesn't look promising. Russia have basically said it's going to be 'eye for an eye' if the US and the EU impose sanctions on them. Also, Russia have just started a massive military drill with 8,500 troops involved near the border of Ukraine.



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 10:51 AM
link   

maddy21

TritonTaranis

maddy21

Foxtrot7x
China will obviously not take a hard stand against Russia as it has its own disputes with a number of countries regarding many islands and such . china doing a crimea on taiwan in the future is a distinct possibility.


Depends on how EU and US react to the annexation of Crimea , if its just idle talk with little action with a few Visa bans then am quite sure Chinese will act in the South China sea and Taiwan , and Sanctioning China would be a joke of the century so that wont happen either...
edit on 13-3-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



You post a video crammed full of unproven BS and propaganda by some bloke in his basement like its credible and fact ? Really... Is this in order to bury your head in the sand

Then Almost laugh at the fact the Crimea has been illegally invaded and occupied and "annexed" from Ukraine illegally like its in someway justifiable because of people saying it is in a conspiracy cave ? Really? We're all just ignoring international laws and the wishes of the Ukrainian people now are we?

Let's see whose laughing in a couple of months, let's see if Russia isn't disabled financially and how china will benefit making silly remarks

China .... The biggest bubble of them all


The western world isn't going to stand for it, if much of the world decided to do business elsewhere, and believe me there is many other places to invest the west being Russia and China's main floaters and the reason for there economies rise would collapse spectacularly, we will be seeing this new war playing out throughout the duration of the coming years I'd suspect,

War if Russia pushes any further, Crimea and an all out war on Russia's economy, take your cake and eat it, it's not going to be at all very difficult to do
edit on 13-3-2014 by TritonTaranis because: (no reason given)


OH boy , your aggression almost seems like the video hit you were it hurt most , whats the point in personally attacking the person who made the video ? Does it make you feel any better ? Did your parents not teach you how to talk to people or is this Internet bravado convenient as its from behind a computer ?

The fact is Nuland herself claimed that she was spending 5$billion in Ukraine interfering in Ukraine's internal affairs..
Also fact is Nuland was caught discussing who should replace the Ukrainian government . Everyone knows America is involved there is no point in trying to defend it ...

It is also a fact that the protesters carried weapons and the Police were shot and killed...
The Video gives crystal clear evidence with sources of what kind of Neo nazi government has been replaced while the hypocrites in this forum and the US govt. blame Russia for their aggression..

The western world has the rights to murder, massacre pillage loot and steal from any country across the globe as long as it servers the interests of the west , so lets not get hyper moralistic about the western world , Stop acting like you are superior to other people .

Stop day dreaming of Chinese and Russian economy collapsing while the west is in piles and piles of Debt and not to mention more than 100million people in food stamps.. Russia will be more than happy to sell its oil,Gas and resources to China , The stuff that Europe exports can easily be purchased form elsewhere, its nothing special .. While on the other hand Europe cannot just magically change into buying oil and gas from US overnight , it takes time and effort to create the infrastructure necessary .. Chinese have already warned the west against Sanctions. The only end result of this is Russia stops depending on the west and Europe ends up loosing 100s of billions $ in exports and cheap import of Gas...
edit on 13-3-2014 by maddy21 because: (no reason given)



You just have alot of wrong information she never made the claim that 5 billion was spent to overthrow the Ukrainian government. She said since 1991 the us has spent money on social and political programs and promote good governance. By the way most of this money was given to Yanukovich. Who it appears stole it instead of investing it in his country. Nice try to rewrite history though rule number one take something out of context its called propaganda. As far as Russia selling to China of course china would love if they were the only buyer from Russia they could set the prices paying them only a fraction of its value. They would love having Putin begging them for money those two countries have never gotten along. As far as replacing Russian gas 18 months to free all of europe from Russian gas dependence. You know they would start with germany france italy and move from there could have them independent in a couple of months. The UK would be the distribution point since they already have zero dependence on Russia.

As far as the Russian economy yes the west could bring it crashing down however the Chinese will be fine so not sure what they have to do with it really.



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 10:58 AM
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ProfessorT
It will be an interesting few days ahead. John Kerry is due to meet Sergei Lavrov in London tomorrow in order to try and get this crisis sorted but it doesn't look promising. Russia have basically said it's going to be 'eye for an eye' if the US and the EU impose sanctions on them. Also, Russia have just started a massive military drill with 8,500 troops involved near the border of Ukraine.


Kerry isnt up to the task of this negotiation hes dealing with alot of false pretexts. He thinks he can shame Russia in leaving Ukraine with stupid statements like countries just dont act like that in the 21st century. Well i guess they do or we wouldnt be having this problem in the first place. Write off Crimea its Russian territory now the cost in the long run for Russia wasnt worth it but Putin will find that out later. Hes alienated Russia from his neighbors so much for his trade pacts he wanted.



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:12 AM
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U.S. Wargames Seems to be some more movement.



www.presstv.ir...

www.presstv.ir...

rt.com...



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:14 AM
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Russia launched new military exercises near its border with Ukraine on Thursday, showing no sign of backing down in its plans to annex its neighbor's Crimea region despite a stronger than expected drive for sanctions from the EU and United States.

In an unusually robust and emotionally worded speech, German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned of "catastrophe" unless Russia changes course.

"We would not only see it, also as neighbors of Russia, as a threat. And it would not only change the European Union's relationship with Russia," she said in a speech in parliament. "No, this would also cause massive damage to Russia, economically and politically."



Russia has pledged to respond in kind to any Western sanctions. China's ambassador to Germany warned of a "spiral" of sanctions hurting both sides.

But European leaders appear to be calculating that the damage to Russia would be far worse than to Europe. EU-Russian trade makes up 15 percent of Russia's economy and just 1 percent of Europe's. Although EU countries, and Germany in particular, depend on Russian natural gas imports, winter is nearly over and storage tanks are full after a mild season.

German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble said on Wednesday he was not worried about serious damage to Germany's economy.

Diplomatic lines have been open between Russia and the West throughout the crisis: U.S. Secretary of State Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov spoke on Thursday as they have nearly every day. They are due to meet in London.


Source: www.reuters.com...

Why are both sides so hard headed? I don't see any reason why this couldn't have been resolved diplomatically. Now threats of sanctions & counter sanctions, massing of troops, exercises are going on all over the region.

Very tense situation. I hope that it all calms down after March 16th.

I liken this situation to an unchecked gas leak; the leak can be found and patched, or one simple spark ignites a conflagration.



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by majesticgent
 





Very tense situation. I hope that it all calms down after March 16th.


I think we already reached the point of no return..



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:27 AM
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After declaring no build up earlier in the week it seems that Russia is performing ops in Belgorod, Kursk and Rostov regions near the Eastern Ukraine.

Link




Russia’s Defense Ministry announced new military operations in several regions near the Ukrainian border on Thursday, even as Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany warned the Kremlin to abandon the politics of the 19th and 20th centuries or face diplomatic and economic retaliation from a united Europe.

In Moscow, the military acknowledged significant operations involving armored and airborne troops in the Belgorod, Kursk and Rostov regions abutting eastern Ukraine, where many ethnic Russians have protested against the new interim government in Ukraine’s capital, Kiev, and appealed to Moscow for protection.

A day after a deputy minister denied any military buildup on the border, the Defense Ministry released a series of statements beginning early Thursday that appeared to contradict that. They outlined what was described as intensive training of units involving artillery batteries, assault helicopters and at least 10,000 soldiers.

Continue reading the main story
RELATED COVERAGE

Chancellor Angela Merkel spoke at the German Parliament on Thursday.Germany Urges Russia to Help Solve Ukraine CrisisMARCH 13, 2014
Arseniy P. Yatsenyuk in Independence Square in Kiev on Feb. 27. Many thought him out of place during the opposition rallies.Ukraine’s New Premier, the ‘Rabbit,’ Seems to Be in His ElementMARCH 12, 2014
“There are a lot of variants here, which is why it is urgent that we have this conversation with the Russians,” Secretary of State John Kerry said.Kerry Plans 11th-Hour Meeting With Russians Over CrimeaMARCH 12, 2014
The operations confirmed, at least in part, assertions by Ukrainian leaders on Wednesday that Russia was massing forces, as well as amateur photographs that appeared to show columns of armored vehicles and trucks in a border village called Lopan, only 30 miles from the Ukrainian city Kharkiv. One statement announced that another 1,500 paratroopers from Ivanovo, east of Moscow, had parachuted onto a military base in Rostov, not far from the Ukrainian cities Donetsk and Lugansk.



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:29 AM
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This is a very sensational article which I'm taking with a grain of salt because I don't want it to be true. I'm putting it in here for speculative and informative purposes.


Red Army masses on Ukraine border:
80,000 troops and missile launchers spark invasion fear Russia has massed tanks, troops and aircraft on the border

Security official warns Ukraine's defences would be incapable

Pictures emerge of heavy Russian armoured vehicles on the move

Tanks have also been pictured carried by rail in Belgorod region

Russian army's Western Military District has declined to comment



Ukraine warned last night that 80,000 Russian troops were massing on its borders and could invade – as world leaders told Vladimir Putin to back off.

A senior security chief in Kiev said Moscow could launch a full-scale invasion and Russian troops would be in the Ukrainian capital within ‘two or three hours’ of the order to advance.

Photographs of Russian tanks and armoured personnel carriers close to Ukraine’s borders added to tensions.

Last night senior British officials told the Mail they had received reports about Russian troops massing on the border since Tuesday and were concerned by the show of force.





Andriy Parubiy, secretary of Ukraine’s National Security and Defence Council, yesterday said that even Kiev may not be safe from Putin’s troops, who were regrouping in ‘an offensive manner’.

Mr Parubiy claimed the forces massing included ‘over 80,000 personnel, up to 270 tanks, 180 armoured vehicles, 380 artillery systems, 18 multiple-launch missile systems, 140 combat aircraft, 90 combat helicopters and 19 warships and cutters’.

He added: ‘Critical is the situation not only in Crimea, but along the entire north-eastern frontier. In fact, Russian troop units are two or three hours of travel from Kiev.’

Former Putin adviser Andrey Illarionov predicted this week that in addition to Crimea, his ex-boss intends to annex other major cities in Ukraine, including Kharkiv, Donetsk, Dnepropetrovsk, Lugansk, Zaporozhye, Kherson and Odessa.

Pictures of Russian armoured vehicles on the move in regions close to the Ukrainian border – said to have been taken on Monday – include motorised infantry vehicles and tanks. The military movements are also said to include Grad BM-21 multiple rocket launch vehicles.




The alleged targets of 'Putin's Plan' to invade south-eastern Ukraine


Source

If that picture holds true... I'm afraid there will be a war. How long and protracted that war will be... That's anyone's guess.

I'm thinking that Russia will not invade Eastern Ukraine. I don't see what they would have to gain by doing so? They would have a lot more to lose than gain by invading East Ukraine.
edit on 13-3-2014 by majesticgent because: (no reason given)

edit on 13-3-2014 by majesticgent because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:31 AM
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Hellas
reply to post by majesticgent
 


I think we already reached the point of no return..


What makes you think that it has already reached a point of no return?



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:34 AM
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Russia is seeking to expand ties with Latin American nations amid tensions with the West over Ukraine.
President Vladimir Putin held a meeting Thursday of the nation's top defense and security officials to discuss Ukraine and ways to develop ties with Latin American countries.


lol....... This is not going to go well with America



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:36 AM
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I think the fact that Russian tanks are now being deployed in large numbers shows that Vladimir Putin is getting ready for war. If his deployment was just of armoured vehicles and those huge lorries to ferry soldiers around I think we would be viewing this in a different light however, placing tanks onto the borders and increasing the number of fighter jets in Belarus sends a clear message to the West and US.



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:43 AM
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majesticgent

Hellas
reply to post by majesticgent
 


I think we already reached the point of no return..


What makes you think that it has already reached a point of no return?


The fact that everything is planned on both sides. (The Coup, the snipers, the military exercises, the strategic placement of troops, Threats etc.)

No one will back off now. There is no way of a diplomatic solution, nor is it the goal. They just negotiate who will get what piece and in the end, boom!



posted on Mar, 13 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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Hellas
reply to post by majesticgent
 





Very tense situation. I hope that it all calms down after March 16th.


I think we already reached the point of no return..


Yeah because the freaking USA won't stay out of other people's business! We shouldn't have anything to do with this mess....



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