It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

page: 138
367
<< 135  136  137    139  140  141 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:06 AM
link   
rt.com...



The self-proclaimed government in Kiev is reportedly planning to cut pensions by 50 percent as part of unprecedented austerity measures to save Ukraine from default. With an “empty treasury”, reduction of payments might take place in March.

According to the draft document obtained by Kommersant-Ukraine, social payments will be the first to be reduced.

“The Finance Ministry has prepared a plan for optimizing budget expenditures, which implies budget sequestration is to be in force before the end of March. For this purpose, in particular, it has been proposed to reduce capital costs, eliminate tax schemes and preferences and to cut social benefits, for example, 50 percent of pensions to working pensioners,” Kommersant-Ukraine reported.


Yes, I know it's RT so don't bother with that trope please.

But if true, hey welcome to the EU Ukraine! Now get ready to lose everything to the IMF.




posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:08 AM
link   

khimbar

Wrabbit2000
It's interesting to watch a central government in Kiev declare what is and isn't legal when they came to power themselves by a coup and running the legally elected President out of the city and into hiding.

It's a Pot calling the Kettle black situation, isn't it? It sure does make for a mess though. The only "legitimate" and as far as I know, STILL proper, leader is a pro-Russian President 2/3rds of Ukraine seems to hate with a passion?

Of course, coup or election.. doesn't seem to matter if the Western powers 'bestow' the title of "legitimate". Suddenly...you are! Funny how that works....


Which is what makes this a doubly clever move by Putin. Having a vote by the Crimeans themselves I mean. No one will be able to claim he took power in a coup if they voted him in.

And the West can't complain when the people in Kiev forced their way into power without a vote, regardless of who was behind them prodding them forward.

Well played Vlad, well played.





I dont think Putin will want to take this to a vote of the people Crimea has a very strong independent streak. They were proud of their self autonomy they arent going to willingly give it up. So if i were Putin instead of a popular vote i would set up a council with my people and have them vote. It will cause problems later as they want to be independent but for now it would get him what he wants.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:09 AM
link   
Riot police and Pro Russian demonstrators in a stand off in Donetsk



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:12 AM
link   
15:09: Russia's foreign ministry says the US is unable to accept that things in Ukraine are not developing as they expected them to, Reuters reports. It was responding to the US state department's publication of President Putin's Fiction: 10 False Claims About Ukraine.




posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:17 AM
link   

khimbar
rt.com...



The self-proclaimed government in Kiev is reportedly planning to cut pensions by 50 percent as part of unprecedented austerity measures to save Ukraine from default. With an “empty treasury”, reduction of payments might take place in March.

According to the draft document obtained by Kommersant-Ukraine, social payments will be the first to be reduced.

“The Finance Ministry has prepared a plan for optimizing budget expenditures, which implies budget sequestration is to be in force before the end of March. For this purpose, in particular, it has been proposed to reduce capital costs, eliminate tax schemes and preferences and to cut social benefits, for example, 50 percent of pensions to working pensioners,” Kommersant-Ukraine reported.


Yes, I know it's RT so don't bother with that trope please.

But if true, hey welcome to the EU Ukraine! Now get ready to lose everything to the IMF.


When Viktor Yanukovych left town he left with 37 billion dollars from their treasury. When they went to look at the books they found out they are broke having only gold reserves totaling about 2 billion in exchange banks.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:19 AM
link   



How the Ukraine crisis ends
By Henry A. Kissinger,

Henry A. Kissinger was secretary of state from 1973 to 1977.

Putin should come to realize that, whatever his grievances, a policy of military impositions would produce another Cold War. For its part, the United States needs to avoid treating Russia as an aberrant to be patiently taught rules of conduct established by Washington. Putin is a serious strategist — on the premises of Russian history. Understanding U.S. values and psychology are not his strong suits. Nor has understanding Russian history and psychology been a strong point of U.S. policymakers.

Leaders of all sides should return to examining outcomes, not compete in posturing. Here is my notion of an outcome compatible with the values and security interests of all sides:

1. Ukraine should have the right to choose freely its economic and political associations, including with Europe.

2. Ukraine should not join NATO, a position I took seven years ago, when it last came up.

3. Ukraine should be free to create any government compatible with the expressed will of its people. Wise Ukrainian leaders would then opt for a policy of reconciliation between the various parts of their country. Internationally, they should pursue a posture comparable to that of Finland. That nation leaves no doubt about its fierce independence and cooperates with the West in most fields but carefully avoids institutional hostility toward Russia.

4. It is incompatible with the rules of the existing world order for Russia to annex Crimea. But it should be possible to put Crimea’s relationship to Ukraine on a less fraught basis. To that end, Russia would recognize Ukraine’s sovereignty over Crimea. Ukraine should reinforce Crimea’s autonomy in elections held in the presence of international observers. The process would include removing any ambiguities about the status of the Black Sea Fleet at Sevastopol.

These are principles, not prescriptions. People familiar with the region will know that not all of them will be palatable to all parties. The test is not absolute satisfaction but balanced dissatisfaction. If some solution based on these or comparable elements is not achieved, the drift toward confrontation will accelerate. The time for that will come soon enough.




posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:20 AM
link   
This is just typical.




15:17: Russian President Vladimir Putin is not among those targeted by US sanctions in connection with the Ukraine crisis, Reuters quotes a senior US official as saying. "It is an unusual and extraordinary circumstance to sanction a head of state, and we would not begin our designations by doing so," the official said.


So who are you sending a message to then?


EDIT: So what whas the excuse with Kadafi? Assad? Yanukovitch... To name a few
edit on thAmerica/Chicago306uk2014 by MessageforAll because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:23 AM
link   
reply to post by maddy21
 


I was about to bash it to pieces just because its HK writing it, but I must say, this man is really wiser the older he gets. I wonder what the motives are for such a "moderate" speech.

edit on 2014u14201403am06 by Yusomad because: Typo



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:24 AM
link   
reply to post by MessageforAll
 


Shows the Russians dont like the state departments report at all. it says things like this.




4. Mr. Putin says: Ukraine’s government is illegitimate. Yanukovych is still the legitimate leader of Ukraine.

The Facts: On March 4, President Putin himself acknowledged the reality that Yanukovych “has no political future.” After Yanukovych fled Ukraine, even his own Party of Regions turned against him, voting to confirm his withdrawal from office and to support the new government. Ukraine’s new government was approved by the democratically elected Ukrainian Parliament, with 371 votes – more than an 82% majority. The interim government of Ukraine is a government of the people, which will shepherd the country toward democratic elections on May 25th – elections that will allow all Ukrainians to have a voice in the future of their country.






6. Mr. Putin says: Ethnic Russians are under threat.

The Facts: Outside of Russian press and Russian state television, there are no credible reports of any ethnic Russians being under threat. The new Ukrainian government placed a priority on peace and reconciliation from the outset. President Oleksandr Turchynov refused to sign legislation limiting the use of the Russian language at regional level. Ethnic Russians and Russian speakers have filed petitions attesting that their communities have not experienced threats. Furthermore, since the new government was established, calm has returned to Kyiv. There has been no surge in crime, no looting, and no retribution against political opponents.






10. Mr. Putin says: The Rada is under the influence of extremists or terrorists.

The Facts: The Rada is the most representative institution in Ukraine. Recent legislation has passed with large majorities, including from representatives of eastern Ukraine. Far-right wing ultranationalist groups, some of which were involved in open clashes with security forces during the EuroMaidan protests, are not represented in the Rada. There is no indication that the Ukrainian government would pursue discriminatory policies; on the contrary, they have publicly stated exactly the opposite.


www.state.gov...



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:36 AM
link   

dragonridr

zilebeliveunknown

dbo24

zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by deviant300
 



Annexation based on the illegal use of force is condemned in the Charter of the United Nations.

I think the annexation is the wrong term here.
It's more like that Crimean people wants to join Russia, not that Russia want to recapture Crimea.
It's a tricky situation, but I don't see any obstacles for Crimea to join Russia if their people want to.


Do the Crimean people truly want to join Russia or have independece or is the idea being forced by the barrel of a Russian gun and by Russia busing in Russian citizens to make it sound as so?

I very much doubt that Crimean people are forced to believe anything.
We will soon know what they have to say on referendum about Crimean status.


Your kind of naive arent you? Been plenty of cases in history where a group influences public opinion through fear and intimidation. Thats how Hitler came to power i suggest you look into the brown shirts and how they were used to put Hitler in power.

It's beyond me why people still using reference to Hitler and how he seized power in Germany.
Sorry but I don't see any similarities with situation in Ukraine, and that is not how modern world functions.

Regarding influencing public opinion, well unless there is some kind of secret psychotronic weapons being put over Crimean people to think the way Russia think, that is a whole another conspiracy, wich I doubt there is one.

It's really simple... Russians living on Ukraine territory wants to join Russia, which is perfectly natural for them to think like that, and that's how I see logic here.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:46 AM
link   
 


off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 09:46 AM
link   
15:37: Crimea's parliament says it has voted to set up new ministries which will become independent of Kiev. These include the ministries of the interior, justice and fuel and energy. Via BBC Monitoring

reply to post by schmae
 


Your Welcome lol.
edit on thAmerica/Chicago306000000k2014 by MessageforAll because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:02 AM
link   
reply to post by MessageforAll
 


Ukranian Gov will be defiant about this. Another illegal move.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:05 AM
link   
reply to post by deviant300
 


Illegal yes, but I think the best solution for the Crimean people.

15:53: The US state department's information on Ukraine "is "cynical, low-rate propaganda", the Russian foreign ministry says, according to Interfax. Via BBC Monitoring

15:52: The Ukrainian foreign ministry's press secretary has accused Russia's parliament of co-ordinating the vote with Crimea's parliament to join Russia, Interfax news agency reports.
"All that is happening now - the decision by the Crimean Supreme Council and statements by the Federation Council and State Duma - are evidence that this is co-ordinated action," Yevhen Perebiynis is quoted as saying.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:06 AM
link   

zilebeliveunknown

dragonridr

zilebeliveunknown

dbo24

zilebeliveunknown
reply to post by deviant300
 



Annexation based on the illegal use of force is condemned in the Charter of the United Nations.

I think the annexation is the wrong term here.
It's more like that Crimean people wants to join Russia, not that Russia want to recapture Crimea.
It's a tricky situation, but I don't see any obstacles for Crimea to join Russia if their people want to.


Do the Crimean people truly want to join Russia or have independece or is the idea being forced by the barrel of a Russian gun and by Russia busing in Russian citizens to make it sound as so?

I very much doubt that Crimean people are forced to believe anything.
We will soon know what they have to say on referendum about Crimean status.


Your kind of naive arent you? Been plenty of cases in history where a group influences public opinion through fear and intimidation. Thats how Hitler came to power i suggest you look into the brown shirts and how they were used to put Hitler in power.

It's beyond me why people still using reference to Hitler and how he seized power in Germany.
Sorry but I don't see any similarities with situation in Ukraine, and that is not how modern world functions.

Regarding influencing public opinion, well unless there is some kind of secret psychotronic weapons being put over Crimean people to think the way Russia think, that is a whole another conspiracy, wich I doubt there is one.

It's really simple... Russians living on Ukraine territory wants to join Russia, which is perfectly natural for them to think like that, and that's how I see logic here.


Let me ask you a question if you have a group willing to kill you if you vote the wrong way you dont think that influences elections. As far as Hitler comparisons you made that leap which shows theres some validity to the statement. I was discussing how the brown shirts influenced an election. But by no means are they the only group that has done this its quid pro quo for dictators throughout the world. In fact there was accusations Putin did the same thing in the last elections then after winning had his opponents assets confiscated by the state really a nasty way to do business.But if someones going to lose all there money it makes them reluctant to put up a political fight doesnt it?

www.themoscowtimes.com...

news.yahoo.com...

And if you want to see who really controls Russia i suggest you look into a man by the name of Alisher Usmanov.
edit on 3/6/14 by dragonridr because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:09 AM
link   

MessageforAll
"All that is happening now - the decision by the Crimean Supreme Council and statements by the Federation Council and State Duma - are evidence that this is co-ordinated action," Yevhen Perebiynis is quoted as saying.


Unlike the non agreement with the EU last month and subsequent western sponsored coup to overthrow said noncompliant leader?
Sorry I meant...Nvm.

Keep them coming this is good



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:21 AM
link   
The argument that the US should not complain because they have been doing the same thing doesn't hold any water.

When EVER has the US invaded a country and and purely through a show of force change the political environment so completely in one week without any casualties?

Answer NEVER!

Way to go Putin

If your going to have and elected dictator, you might at least have one who's actions are greater than his words
Unlike what we have here in the US


edit on 6-3-2014 by Xcouncil=wisdom because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:22 AM
link   
Good grief I cant believe how fast this thread is moving!! I do not know if this has been posted yet or not, but I loved this quote. Thought I'd share.


The Russian leader blamed the Obama administration for encouraging an unconstitutional coup in Ukraine “from across the pond in America, as if they were sitting in a laboratory and running experiments on rats, without any understanding of the consequences.”

Read more: www.washingtontimes.com...
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter


He is really good at describing a situation isnt he? Really puts it in perspective.

In that same article, it talks about how Obama is telling Putin to get his troops out of the Crimea.
(Doesn't Russia have a naval base there? I'm confused, is Obama world dictator now telling countries where they can or can not have their bases?)

Obama's threat if he is not obeyed? He won't come to the G8 meeting.

Well, there! That should show 'em
edit on 6-3-2014 by mrsdudara because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:26 AM
link   
reply to post by dragonridr
 



Let me ask you a question if you have a group willing to kill you if you vote the wrong way you dont think that influences elections.

Come on mate, do you really think that Russians from Russia are threatening their own people in Ukraine to vote for unification?
To me that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.



posted on Mar, 6 2014 @ 10:32 AM
link   
Ethnic Russian populations in other former Soviet republics (%):
estonia 30
latvia 34
Lithuania 9
belarus 13
moldova 13
ukraine 22
georgia 6
armenia 2
kazakhstan 37
kyrgyzstan 21
tajikistan 4
uzbekistan 8
turkmenistan 10
azerbaijan 6
ukraine 22

WHO IS NEXT ?



new topics

top topics



 
367
<< 135  136  137    139  140  141 >>

log in

join