Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

deviant300

My question is does Crimea pro-russian leaders have the legal right to decide through a referendum the future Crimea's part to join Russia. Or does this have to be through the Ukrainian gov?

Honestly, it seems to me that nobody is certain who has legal right to do what. All of the quotes below are from the BBC Live website:

11:56: The legal position in Ukraine regarding the possible secession of Crimea is unclear. Under Ukraine's constitution, "issues of altering the territory of Ukraine are resolved exclusively by an all-Ukrainian referendum". But the constitution also says Crimea is entitled to call its own local referendums.

12:11: Pro-Russian authorities plan to "nationalise" state property in Ukraine's Crimea region, Interfax reports.

12:26: The Russian parliament could look at Crimea's appeal to join Russia as early as next week, The Guardian's Moscow correspondent Shaun Walker tweets.

12:36: Holding a referendum in Crimea is illegal, the Ukrainian justice ministry is reported by Interfax-Ukraine to have said.

Just updated in BBC News Live Stream
www.bbc.co.uk...
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12:33: Russia is planning an "annexation" of Crimea and other parts of Ukraine, opposition Russian politician Leonid Gozman tells a meeting of centre-right EU politicians in Dublin, PA reports. "The majority of Russians support our aggression in Crimea, the majority of Russians are very happy that we are planning to bring an annexation of Crimea and other parts of Ukraine," Mr Gozman says.

12:41: The United States is "pursuing and reviewing a wide range of options in response to Russia's ongoing violation of Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity - actions that constitute a threat to peace and security and a breach of international law", a White House statement says.

12:36: Holding a referendum in Crimea is illegal, the Ukrainian justice ministry is reported by Interfax-Ukraine to have said.

12:35: British Prime Minister David Cameron and German Chancellor Angela Merkel meet in Brussels ahead of a European leaders emergency summit on Ukraine.

12:44: The state department "is putting in place visa restrictions on a number of officials and individuals, reflecting a policy decision to deny visas to those responsible for or complicit in threatening the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine", the White House statement says. It is not clear who in particular will be affected by the restrictions, correspondents say.

www.bbc.co.uk...

It's interesting to watch a central government in Kiev declare what is and isn't legal when they came to power themselves by a coup and running the legally elected President out of the city and into hiding.

It's a Pot calling the Kettle black situation, isn't it? It sure does make for a mess though. The only "legitimate" and as far as I know, STILL proper, leader is a pro-Russian President 2/3rds of Ukraine seems to hate with a passion?

Of coure, coup or election.. doesn't seem to matter if the Western powers 'bestow' the title of "legitimate". Suddenly...you are! Funny how that works....

deviant300
My question is does Crimea pro-russian leaders have the legal right to decide through a referendum the future Crimea's part to join Russia. Or does this have to be through the Ukrainian gov?

I doubt they have legal base for this.
However we had an example when precedent was set with Kosovo (autonomous region in Serbia) when they have been allowed by majority of western governments to declare independance. It's a similar situation with Crimea.
By this we are witnessing the oppening of Pandora's box because there are lots of regions in the world who wants indepandance.

As much as it seems that Ukraine is no match to Russia's grip of military movements in Crimea and others area in Ukraine there will be a point where military intervention will be the last card on the table.

It seems Ukraine does not wan't bloodshed thus the reason why Ukrainian soldiers don't have a fight on their hands when their bases are being over run by foreign troops.

But how long will this last? Russia seems to not be negotiating with the international community, now open reports have come through of a possible annexation of Crimea and other parts of Ukraine.

Annexation based on the illegal use of force is condemned in the Charter of the United Nations.

So what next?

BREAKING NEWS The US is to impose visa restrictions on "officials and individuals" complicit in "threatening the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine", the White House says.

BBC Live Stream

Some more on the Visa ban

The US is imposing visa restrictions on Russian and Crimean officials and private citizens who they accuse of “threatening Ukraine’s sovereignty and integrity,” the White House says.

American President Barack Obama has signed an executive order authorizing sanctions against “individuals and entities responsible for activities undermining democratic processes or institutions in Ukraine.”

DETAILS TO FOLLOW
rt.com...

Is it just me or does this sound very broad? As in we need to make a statement, but we don't really want to.

reply to post by MessageforAll

The US is imposing visa restrictions on Russian and Crimean officials and private citizens who they accuse of “Undermining the United States coup in Ukraine,” the White House says.

There, fixed it proper.

reply to post by deviant300

Annexation based on the illegal use of force is condemned in the Charter of the United Nations.

I think the annexation is the wrong term here.
It's more like that Crimean people wants to join Russia, not that Russia want to recapture Crimea.
It's a tricky situation, but I don't see any obstacles for Crimea to join Russia if their people want to.

13:21: A 40-strong team from the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) is prevented by gunmen from entering Crimea to begin their monitoring mission, AFP reports, citing an unnamed "Western diplomatic source".

reply to post by zilebeliveunknown


I agree with the point you make there, I not taking any propaganda that seriously I just pulled this off the BBC News stream though not sure what to make of it.

What are your thoughts?

12:33: Russia is planning an "annexation" of Crimea and other parts of Ukraine, opposition Russian politician Leonid Gozman tells a meeting of centre-right EU politicians in Dublin, PA reports. "The majority of Russians support our aggression in Crimea, the majority of Russians are very happy that we are planning to bring an annexation of Crimea and other parts of Ukraine," Mr Gozman says.

13:26: A decree making Crimea part of Russia is already in force and Ukrainian troops still on its territory will be treated as occupiers and forced to surrender or leave, Crimea's deputy prime minister is quoted by Reuters as saying. "The only lawful armed force on the territory of the Crimea is the Russian armed forces," Rustam Temirgaliev is reported to have said

So, over night the occupiers become the occupied? Lmao, so now the Ukrainians are invading Crimea haha.

Deleted, MessageforAll beat me to it.

What I don't understand is... if it's already 'in force' as the Crimean politician says... why bother with a referendum vote? This is making no sense to me at all.

MyMindIsMyOwn
Deleted, MessageforAll beat me to it.

What I don't understand is... if it's already 'in force' as the Crimean politician says... why bother with a referendum vote? This is making no sense to me at all.

edit on 6-3-2014 by MyMindIsMyOwn because: (no reason given)

To make it somehow legal .

xavi1000

MyMindIsMyOwn
Deleted, MessageforAll beat me to it.

What I don't understand is... if it's already 'in force' as the Crimean politician says... why bother with a referendum vote? This is making no sense to me at all.

edit on 6-3-2014 by MyMindIsMyOwn because: (no reason given)

To make it somehow legal .

Absolutely. My comment there was more of a rhetorical snarky comment on the situation.

13:43: The USS Truxtun, a US Navy guided-missile destroyer, is heading to the Black Sea for what the US military has described as a "routine" deployment that was scheduled well before the crisis in Ukraine began, Reuters reports.

This doesn't help the situation one bit.

reply to post by ken10


Almost, but more accurate I think.

The US is imposing visa restrictions on Russian and Crimean officials and private citizens who they accuse of “Undermining the International Corporate Banking coup in Ukraine,” the White House says.

www.whitehouse.gov...
Statement by the Press Secretary on Ukraine


I just skimmed it, a lot of nothing, empty treats.