Russia declares war on Ukraine. Live updates from inside Ukraine

xavi1000
I'm afraid that Putin doesn't recognise responsibility on Russia as G-8 member and one of the major super nuclear powers in this interconnected and globalised World. If this is true

Angry Angela Merkel questions whether Putin is 'in touch with reality'

link
Then we have a real danger here of World peace.

Apparently Merkel is not the only one. Former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright seems to share that sentiment as well.

He spoke for an hour in a ranting, strange, rambling mix of emotions and messages. No one has been able to properly summarize it yet, because it can’t be done. CNN tries to summarize it here, but former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright echoes what almost every single analyst has said so far — Putin really is living in some other world, delusional, maybe even nuts:

Link: THEINTERPRETER

asen_y2k
And to add separately to my previous post, Ukrainian border guards have reported a build up of Russian forces on the border of Lugansk, and three other states.

Which goes directly to what you stated a little earlier, that you had heard that what happened in Crimea, was going to happen elsewhere in Eastern Ukraine. Not good news at all, but expected.

Catacomb

asen_y2k
And to add separately to my previous post, Ukrainian border guards have reported a build up of Russian forces on the border of Lugansk, and three other states.

Which goes directly to what you stated a little earlier, that you had heard that what happened in Crimea, was going to happen elsewhere in Eastern Ukraine. Not good news at all, but expected.

No i did not hear any info like that. Its just my opinion and guess. What I heard is actually additional info, which makes me somewhat sure its going to happen in other regions, what happened in Crimea.

celticniall
reply to post by DJW001

 

I am not siding nor believing either side......I see the rhetoric coming from all three sides.

All I know is that Yanukovich was ousted as a result of delaying or not signing the EU agreement for closer ties, as, according to some, this would isolate them from Russia, whom they have very strong economic and business ties as well as various agreements for natural gas, and the leasing of several bases in Crimea where the Russian Black Sea Fleet is based.

The coup was orchestrated by fuel from the western powers, who always jump at the chance to isolate Russia. In Yanukovich's place, a hastily "interim" governement was put in place in Kiev, headed by convicted criminals and backed by fascists and yobs. The political views of these people are anti Russian, and openly indicated their strategy for Eastern Ukraine, which not good news for Ukrainian Russians...

Russia, having already had troops based in Crimea as part of their Black Sea Fleet, may have sent a few extra in to safeguard their assets and keep an eye on things and the people there (invasion? maybe not exactly)

anyway, we have the western governments blowing up, with all the rhetoric of "sovereign borders" and "international law" which in itself, for any person with a mind of their own can see it for the hypocrisy it is....I mean Iraq, Syria, Libya, etc etc.....to the point that no one listens to their words now.

So here we are, with the guys in Kiev believing they are cool with western backing, being egged on to stir things up more.....and Russia, protecting her interests and actually being the calm voice in all of this......not reacting to the threats coming from Obama/Cameron, et al.

Meanwhile Yanukovich fled, as know well and good what happens to the ousted leader of a country.....example Gadaffi, Saddam.....

Ukraine is a mess, but Russia is trying to stop it getting into such a mess like Libya, as it is in Russia's best interests to have a healthy friendly economic neighbour.

Personally I do not believe Russia has any expansion plans in the region.....it is all hyper propaganda to make Russia the big red monster again, as now that the threat from Al Queda has all but gone away....we need another enemy.....

By the way I am Irish, and have no allegience either way, I just see though the MSM propaganda machine

edit on 4-3-2014 by celticniall because: sp

Actually the protests started over a 15 billion dollar loan from Russia. Yanukovych abandoned western deals which was gas contracts from Europe in November in favor of a $15 billion bailout loan from Russia that set off a wave of protests. Within weeks, the protests expanded to include outrage over corruption and human rights abuses, leading to calls for Yanukovych's resignation. Than there parliament started investigating him Yanukovych had ordered the police to fire on protesters. There were police snipers shooting people in the square it gets so bad eventual the police stop following orders. Than there is the fact he stole 37 billion dollars from the Ukrainian people. Turns out they didnt need the loan from Russia if there money wasnt stolen. and figures about 70 billion over 3 years. What was the Ukrainian parliament supposed to do at this point allow this to continue? Well they didnt they took votes they sent the war crimes to the hague for prosecution they voted on an interim president until they can hold national elections. Russia needs to sell the story of the evil west started this in order to complete his goals of annexing the country. The west didnt force Ukraine to do anything they made offers in the form of business deals. Germans made some really good offers to the Ukrainian government i wont go into right now. But they had no control over what happened

Per Twitter, shots fired........hopefully this is rumor .....

twitter.com...

( are we allowed to post twitter , if not sorry )

ETA, I don't think very many , if any of the posters on this thread are warmongers. I don't want a war.
Seeing what is going on because it's of huge international significance is not pushing war..... my two cents !

schmae
Per Twitter, shots fired........hopefully this is rumor .....

twitter.com...

( are we allowed to post twitter , if not sorry )

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by xavi1000


Oh , this was a flurry of tweets in the last few minutes. I was assuming ( probably in error ) that it was not the same incident as in the video. Waiting for better info and thank you

Instead of sitting back and threatening Russia with financial sactions, US and it's allies should remove Putin from power.

It's clear he's either out of touch with reality or going senile at an early age

dragonridr
I am not siding nor believing either side......I see the rhetoric coming from all three sides.

All I know is that Yanukovich was ousted as a result of delaying or not signing the EU agreement for closer ties, as, according to some, this would isolate them from Russia, whom they have very strong economic and business ties as well as various agreements for natural gas, and the leasing of several bases in Crimea where the Russian Black Sea Fleet is based.

The coup was orchestrated by fuel from the western powers, who always jump at the chance to isolate Russia. In Yanukovich's place, a hastily "interim" governement was put in place in Kiev, headed by convicted criminals and backed by fascists and yobs. The political views of these people are anti Russian, and openly indicated their strategy for Eastern Ukraine, which not good news for Ukrainian Russians...

Actually the protests started over a 15 billion dollar loan from Russia. Yanukovych abandoned western deals which was gas contracts from Europe in November in favor of a $15 billion bailout loan from Russia that set off a wave of protests. Within weeks, the protests expanded to include outrage over corruption and human rights abuses, leading to calls for Yanukovych's resignation. Than there parliament started investigating him Yanukovych had ordered the police to fire on protesters. There were police snipers shooting people in the square it gets so bad eventual the police stop following orders. Than there is the fact he stole 37 billion dollars from the Ukrainian people. Turns out they didnt need the loan from Russia if there money wasnt stolen. and figures about 70 billion over 3 years. What was the Ukrainian parliament supposed to do at this point allow this to continue? Well they didnt they took votes they sent the war crimes to the hague for prosecution they voted on an interim president until they can hold national elections. Russia needs to sell the story of the evil west started this in order to complete his goals of annexing the country. The west didnt force Ukraine to do anything they made offers in the form of business deals. Germans made some really good offers to the Ukrainian government i wont go into right now. But they had no control over what happened

What war crimes have they sent to the hague then...As there isn't a war going on..

schmae
Per Twitter, shots fired........hopefully this is rumor .....

twitter.com...

( are we allowed to post twitter , if not sorry )

ETA, I don't think very many , if any of the posters on this thread are warmongers. I don't want a war.
Seeing what is going on because it's of huge international significance is not pushing war..... my two cents !

edit on 4-3-2014 by schmae because: (no reason given)

that was an earlier confrontation no one was hurt it was warning shots.

I figured you guys might want to see this it shows how the Russians lied about refugees crossing into russia on russian television.

www.stopfake.org...

muse7
Instead of sitting back and threatening Russia with financial sactions, US and it's allies should remove Putin from power.

It's clear he's either out of touch with reality or going senile at an early age

Yeah thats not realistic the Russian people would have to do that and well they tried once already and he just made himself prime minister.

And meanwhile all this is going on, Someone somewhere will be fleecing is all for trillions....keep one eye on the What,s happening elsewhere. I smell a Rat here.

muse7
Instead of sitting back and threatening Russia with financial sactions, US and it's allies should remove Putin from power.

It's clear he's either out of touch with reality or going senile at an early age

I think the world has bigger problems with Obama & Co, so that's where the starting point of removal should be.

muse7
Instead of sitting back and threatening Russia with financial sactions, US and it's allies should remove Putin from power.

It's clear he's either out of touch with reality or going senile at an early age

Anyone can be gotten to, anywhere on Earth. It's a simple fact and plain spoken truth in the modern age. Presidents...Popes..Kings..it makes absolutely no difference outside which unit needs called and how much "special equipment" they need for the job.

The only thing that keeps people like Obama safe to sleep at night.....and it ain't the Secret Service....is a seeming taboo line agreed to among the world leaders about simply NOT targeting each other while in office and while in command of forces and their nation.

....Saddam was hunted into a hole like a rat ...but captured after he was out of power. He gave speeches and paraded like a fool before the invasion. Big as life and as open for a sniper as a Christmas present sitting down range on a table. Gadaffi did the same, and died the same. Only after effective removal from power and relegated to a man on the run within his own cities.

Putin is safe because this is Russia...not Libya. No Russian President (or American one) will be reduced to running from their residence like scared cats, ahead of a bulldog. They'll fight, but they won't run. Neither will we, if things are reversed.

Killing or capturing Putin from his sitting position as active leader to one of the top 3 most powerful nations on Earth? Well... Obama would vanish next and breaking that taboo is ALL I think some nations are actually waiting on...or giving it up because of. No one wants to break that taboo, because they'll be #2 to go. Whoever does it.

reply to post by andy1972


Here is what the parliament accused him of and sending to the hague.

vestnikkavkaza.net...

reply to post by dragonridr


Nov 21st :

Ukraine has suspended preparations for a trade deal with the EU.

A government statement said the decision had been taken to protect Ukraine's "national security".

Hours earlier MPs rejected a bill that would have allowed jailed opposition leader Yulia Tymoshenko to leave the country - which the EU had demanded as a condition for the deal to proceed.

BBC News

Dec 17th :

After talks between Mr Putin and Mr Yanukovych in the Kremlin, it was announced Russia would buy $15bn-worth (£9.2bn; 10.9bn euros) of Ukrainian government bonds.

The cost of Russian gas supplied to Ukraine has been slashed from more than $400 (£245; 291 euros) per 1,000 cubic metres to $268.5.

Mr Putin said the assistance was not "tied to any conditions".

BBC News

As far as I can see, neither side did much anything wrong as such as the initial cause of the conflict, Yanukovych did not believe the deal with the EU was in the interests of Ukraine, except the far right extremists in Kiev did not like this, and protested.

Now what happened during the protests is unclear, and I'm sure there is fault to be levied on both sides for the escalation.

Even after Yanukovych agreed to conditions and review, he was ousted in a coup...backed by Western interests.

I just cant help seeing the same thing happen in other countries that the West initiates regime change....Libya....Syria, although it hasn't been as successful in Syria as they hoped. It's almost as if there is a map and a blueprint for forced changes and they just apply it to each country.

....and here we are.....

muse7
Instead of sitting back and threatening Russia with financial sactions, US and it's allies should remove Putin from power.

It's clear he's either out of touch with reality or going senile at an early age

It is a bit more complicated than just removing him. You don't really want to invade Russia and drive an already skeptical Russian population into an anti-west sentiment. Russia is a nation that the US and Europe want social and economic ties with. Financial and political sanctions are really the best ways to put pressure on the Putin. Because if you can get him to relent and back off you can then normalize relations without spilled blood to cloud the process.

Just saw this announcement on NATO's site:

NATO Secretary General Anders Fogh Rasmussen will give a statement to the media at 17h today (4 March) at the NATO front entrance.

The announcement and the page for the live stream when it happens are here:

NATO Announcement & Live Stream Link

I'm not sure exactly what time zone that is, so maybe it already happened or maybe it will happen soon...?

reply to post by celticniall


Let me ask you a question this deal is important to germany. So please explain to me how the Germans created this coup like you claim. Do you have any evidence that Merkel did anything to aid the protests because i looked and couldnt find a thing.This is a baseless accusation started by Putin himself and in case you havnt noticed he isnt acting very rational at the moment.

This was just posted on the NATO website:

04 Mar. 2014
Statement by the North Atlantic Council following meeting under article 4 of the Washington Treaty

The North Atlantic Council has met at Poland’s request to hold consultations within the framework of Article 4 of the Washington Treaty, which states that “the parties will consult whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence, or security of any of the parties is threatened.”

Despite repeated calls by the international community, Russia continues to violate Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, and to violate its international commitments.

These developments present serious implications for the security and stability of the Euro‑Atlantic area.

Allies stand together in the spirit of strong solidarity in this grave crisis.

We undertake to pursue and intensify our rigorous and on-going assessment of the implications of this crisis for Alliance security, in close coordination and consultation.

We continue to support all constructive efforts for a peaceful solution to the current crisis in accordance with international law. We welcome the ongoing efforts undertaken by the United Nations, the European Union, the OSCE and the Council of Europe.

We will continue to consult with Ukraine within the NATO-Ukraine Commission.

We will engage with Russia in the NATO-Russia Council. We will hold a meeting tomorrow.

SOURCE: NATO website

Looks like they are mostly going to wait and see what Russia does next and meet again tomorrow.