American flag shirts banned at school on Cinco de Mayo

And mexicans wonder why people hate them?

Wear a flag shirt, a mexican mob beats you up, and it's YOUR fault and YOU have to change.

Instead of, you know, saying that it's not OK to attack people because they are wearing a certain shirt.

I'll accept anyone from anywhere in the world if they want to come here and be an AMERICAN.

I will fight anybody and everybody if they want to come here and turn America into their country.

Are you a mexican first, or an American first? If you are a mexican first, you have no business here, and should go home. If you are an American first, you should be flying the American flag right next to your mexican one on the 5th, and embracing others who fly it as well.

The PROBLEM here is violent mexicans thinking it's OK to beat up kids wearing an American flag.... IN AMERICA.

reply to post by txinfidel


Actually, an incident on cinco de mayo caused them to ban the items. But they are banned on all days from now on.

kaylaluv
They care because of the intent behind the action. The intent is to insult and belittle them and their heritage on the one day in America that they celebrate their heritage.

That is presumptuous at best even given the testimony presented within the Opinion of the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals (Note PDF link).

In such, it is noted to what led to the decision (Emphasis is mine)

On Cinco de Mayo in 2009, a year before the events relevant to this appeal, there was an altercation on campus between a group of predominantly Caucasian students and a group of Mexican students.

First, the notion of safety was presumed on an incident that occurred in the past, as noted above. I also have a problem with the identification of the groups. One is "Caucasian" and the other "Mexican". There is no way to know if the Caucasians were not immigrants themselves and why identify students of presumably Hispanic heritage as "Mexican"?

Regardless, if we are to use the previous year's incident, it is noted that the escalation of threat was by the "Mexican" students when they verbally threatened the "Caucasian" students.

The groups exchanged profanities and threats...one Mexican student shouted “f*** them white boys, f*** them white boys.”

Even more telling is the claim of "racism" by the "Mexican" students, for merely a display of our National flag.

[T]he student said, “But Rodriguez, they are racist. They are being racist. F*** them white boys. Let’s f*** them up.” Rodriguez removed the student from the area.

The last statement is notable, considering that instead of disciplining the "Mexican" student for their provocation of violence, the Assistant Principle just removed them. They made the remarks to "f*** them up".

Moving forward, we can see yet again, it was the "Mexican" students who confronted the attire of the "Caucasian" students. In 2010, a group of students decided to wear shirts with the American flag adorned upon it. One was confronted and asked “Why are you wearing that? Do you not like Mexicans[?]”

I think this was never answered and it may be the key to this whole case, but apparently the "Mexican" students were not allowed to wear attire with the Mexican flag? According to the Opinion, one student asked why the Caucasian students “get to wear their flag
out when we [sic] don’t get to wear our [sic] flag?"

Overall, the threats and intent of inciting violence came from the "Mexican" students.

reply to post by kaylaluv

That's the best you got? Mexican food sucks. If I never ate a taco, burrito, enchilada, etc( they all taste the same) it would be too soon.

reply to post by ketsuko

So, the correct way to address the problem is to allow mob rule instead of addressing the actual issue which has nothing to do with what flag everyone is wearing on what day?

In light of the broader issues here vs. the fact this school has had a history of real problems on this day, relating to things like this? Allowing the school to have policies on it's property and within it's area of responsibility which prevent known and documented (I assume what the district reps refer to on this is on the record) problems from repeating.

Now where schools are getting into actually tagging students for off campus expression and what isn't a direct issue to in-school activity, they go totally over the line and do stomp across Constitutional principles as well as enumerated rights.

Are flags banned every day at that school? That WOULD be a different matter and expression vs. concerns to a specific event/day with conflict. If they are banned every day, are all flags, or just one? There are a wide variety of questions to hop bunny trails out on for related questions.

The base question tho? Did the school have the right to take issue with shirts on a day and way it's caused previous issues? Yup.. I agree with the court. They did.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Again, that doesn't address the problem and allows the aggressors to get away with it. What happens when they decide they just plain don't like white kids at their school? Will the white kids be the next things to go ... in the interest of safety, of course.

riffraff
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

That's the best you got? Mexican food sucks. If I never ate a taco, burrito, enchilada, etc( they all taste the same) it would be too soon.

You must be from the north where they don't know how to cook Mexican food. In the southern part of the U.S., Mexican food rules!!!

reply to post by ketsuko

Again, that doesn't address the problem and allows the aggressors to get away with it. What happens when they decide they just plain don't like white kids at their school?

Well, then that will be a whole different case, and likely a criminal one, not civil. It sure wouldn't be about behavior on a specific day with history of problems to that specific location though, as it would have become an outright civil rights matter if nothing else.

One doesn't necessarily lead to the other or ever have to though, so I don't see the connection between the specifics of this case and where some of the hypotheticals run to.

the problem here is where does this end?...this could become a slippery slope....and why would Mexicans become violent over this, why would they invest so much emotional hatred on an American flagged t-shirt. they need to take away the "power" of it on an emotional basis, instead they have increased it. if they ignored it for a couple of years, it would end because nobody would care.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Or another issue is that in CA, we're now treating the American flag like the Confederate one.

Brit here. Whilst I'm no fan of anyone being specifically forbidden to wear anything, I can't help thinking this wouldn't be a problem (or even seen as 'necessary') if folk weren't so determined to be an asshole about it.

As I understand Cinco de Mayo, it's a predominently Mexican-American event. Given California (and NM) was orignally part of Mexico itself, I see no reason why it shouldn't be part of Californian culture as a whole given there are 'native' Mexicans who now happen to be living in the States.

I just don't understand why it's necessary to be so 'USA! USA!' about it all. White-Californians should know the history and heritage of their state, and Mexican-Californians should be free to celebrate an event pertaining to Alta California as it was back in the day. It's only one day a year. I doubt many Mexicans in California would want to go back, but Cinco de Mayo is really no different to St. Patrick's or anything else.

I don't support preventing anyone wearing national flags or symbols, but it would seem that the kind of thing detailed in the OP is down to idiots being deliberately provocative in the past. Is it really necessary to send Hank Jr. to school of May 5th wearing a cape made out of Old Glory? I'd probably suggest not.

reply to post by KingIcarus


The thing is that people celebrating St. Patty's in the US wear both Irish and American flags, so you'd think the same ought to hold true here if you are proud of both sides of your heritage, whether the American is partial or adopted.

reply to post by ketsuko


I absolutely agree there are some issues with how the flag is being treated around California and the nation in general. The Pledge is treated increasingly like a silly tradition and not something with meaning to bond a society ..as really matters to a functional nation. Handling of the flag is atrocious and I don't know if it makes it better or worse to note how it isn't challenged as much as I used to see in public when someone carelessly and casually drops the flag while raising or lowering at a business or whatever. Many small ways it's come to be far less than it once was, and I don't like it myself.

The thing is, picking battles is important for directing energy and avoiding the trap of starting to fight everything, however slight or tangential in relation, simply because there is some relation, somewhere.

This boils down to a safety issue for a schools ability to set a safe environment far far more than any flag or expression issue. The more I've taken a bit to really look at this, the clearer that becomes. Add to that, some kids who just had to fight city hall. It's coming to be the new way as we look at kids like miniature adults they absolutely aren't and can not be by physical biology of brain development alone.

ketsuko
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Or another issue is that in CA, we're now treating the American flag like the Confederate one.

No one is treating the American flag like the confederate flag. The problem is the kids using the American flag like the racist used the confederate flag.

reply to post by ketsuko


I would have thought that'd be the logical way to do this, tbh, but it's fair to say that there's more animosity between Mex/US types than Ire/US.

As a Brit example, despite all the 'Troubles', the UK/Ire relationship is fairly tight. Seperate nations entirely, but we get on pretty bloody well. It's not uncommon to see the Ireland and Great Britain flags flown side-by-side in appropriate situations. That's not to say there isn't tensions, but for the most part we can enjoy one another's company. As it should be.

This all goes out the window for the duration of a soccer or rugby game though, of course!

Again, as it should be!

kaylaluv

riffraff
reply to post by kaylaluv

 

That's the best you got? Mexican food sucks. If I never ate a taco, burrito, enchilada, etc( they all taste the same) it would be too soon.

You must be from the north where they don't know how to cook Mexican food. In the southern part of the U.S., Mexican food rules!!!

Yeah I'm from the great northern state of mississippi. You got me

reply to post by kaylaluv


weLL technically taco bell started out as a got dog business but nobody was buying the doggs so owner bought a tortilla press and started to stuff the tortillas with hotdog chili and cheese and the rest is history . and yes that was probably the mentality of these kids or there parents but first amendment rights are guaranteed for ALL . not just when it convient for some and at a school in cali they were probably the miinority