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Bible Alterations and Converting the Sun Worshippers.

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posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 04:36 PM
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adjensen
That isn't what it says.

You can't have "σάββατον" mean Sabbath and "the Holy Season known as the Feast of Unleavened Bread" in the same sentence. I showed you how a specialist in the Hebrew language described how the Jews in that time referred to days, and it's exactly in concordance with "σάββατον" meaning Sabbath and "μία σάββατον" meaning the first day of the week, and that's why every translation says "the first day of the week", not "one Sabbath."

Christ was resurrected on Sunday, and early Christians worshiped on Sunday, as described in scripture. Case closed.


Sabbaths = Appointed times, set aside for Holy Use and Purpose.

Weekly Sabbath (7th day).

and

Annual Sabbaths (7 Annual high Holy Days).

Are both "Sabbath" (Sabbaton) i.e. appointed times set aside for Holy use and Purpose.

You absolutely can have a sentence saying:

"and then after the Sabbath (7th day) within the Sabbaths (annual high days)."

And it make perfect sense in Greek; especially if you are writing to a group of followers who have been faithfully keeping the commandments of God and observing these "appointed times" for years.

God will determine when the case is closed.

"only a sith speaks in absolutes"
edit on 28-2-2014 by ElohimJD because: (no reason given)




posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 



You are correct in that many people in the first few centuries after Christ's death kept a Sunday worship day as your priests have used this to claim they are the original Church, but they are not the true Church of God.

What on Earth are you talking about? You claimed that there was no weekly Eucharist or Sunday worship until Constantine. I proved you wrong, and now you're saying that the church of Justin Martyr is a different church than the one that held the Council of Nicaea? How did that happen?

1) The church in question, which Justin Martyr was a member of, and which participated in the Council of Nicaea, is the Catholic Church.
2) The Catholic Church, by historical evidence, held weekly worship services on Sunday and distributed the Eucharist weekly at least as early as the Second Century.
3) Ergo, the Council of Nicaea, held in the Fourth Century, obviously didn't impose weekly Sunday distribution of the Eucharist.

You've been proven wrong on pretty much every claim that you've made, maybe you should rethink your whole "I belong to the 'true' church of God," because it sounds like you belong to the First Church of Delusional Thinking.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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I don't think anyone would argue with the idea that the various Sun Gods are often depicted at the center of the celestial zodiac:

Helios


Helios, aka the Unconquered Sun, aka Sol Invictus, aka ...


Close up, Helios, et. al.


Where did we see this one? Helios, Sol, no ..., WAIT, I remember, this one is under St. Peters in the Vatican. Jesus.


JESU from a Georgian cathedral ...


Jesus Christ, the Righteous Sun, from a Medieval Text


That's just all bad scholarship though. No similarities at all there, right? Am I right?


Silly people, who would ever make the claim that Jesus is like the other sun gods ...



I mean, it's really really stretching it ... there's just no chance of it being true.


Nothing, nothing to it at all. It's all just hokum made up to attack Christianity ...
edit on 17Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:14:40 -060014p052014266 by Gryphon66 because: Er. Yeah.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by Gryphon66
 


You might want to have a look at my OP in the thread that spawned this thread: Dispelling Christianity with Homophones: The Son/Sun Conspiracy



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 05:47 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


I've read all the debunking materials I need to; thanks.


I'm sure the son/sun analogies are quite cute.

I have eyes, and I can see. Can you?
edit on 17Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:49:33 -060014p052014266 by Gryphon66 because: Yeah.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 05:59 PM
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History, despite what we are taught in school and lead to believe on internet message boards, is not a linear A to B progression. There are multiple actions on each moment in history, and there are multiple places to focus.

The fact that any of us believe with certainty that we can speak of anything we've not witnessed personally falls apart philosophically.

Even that which you are sure you have seen, you probably haven't.

I've made repeated arguments in similar threads because ... it was just intellectually distasteful to me to see unsupported belief represented as academic or historic facts. Yet, belief is strong, as is my belief in logic, evidence and reason.

It's still just belief, at the end of the day. That's why every discussion just comes to crap.

I believe in science; someone else believes in ... gods.

Still belief.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by Gryphon66
 



I have eyes, and I can see. Can you?

Apparently you can see what you want to see.

Jesus is depicted in iconography as being the light of the world, he is not depicted as being the sun. You might be unfamiliar with the Bible, but it has quite a bit about how wrong it is to worship anything other than God.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 07:08 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Honestly, adjensen, I'm not interested in your take on what I post, what I think, believe, know, etc.

I'm not interested in your estimate of my knowledge, understanding or mental capacities.

You've repeatedly proven to me that you're merely interested in your own skewed beliefs as well as being baselessly insulting to other ATS members. In thread after thread you always repeat the same material, link the same links, and do your best to assault, at least in your own mind, the positions and beliefs of others.

I've demonstrated multiple ways above (which are only a miniscule portion of evidence available via simple internet search) which demonstrates that "Jesus" was indeed depicted, referred to and understood as the god of the sun, lord of light, etc. etc. I don't care that you don't believe it, I'm not interested in your convoluted logic, I'm not impressed by your ability to Google factoids that you think back up your claims.

I'm not interested in your blanket dismissals nor in your pedantic references to your own thoughts.

In short, I have no interest in replying to you. And, please feel free to ignore me and my posts.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by Gryphon66
 


Sorry, but you don't get to control the conversation because you can't take criticism. If you don't wish to defend rubbish, then do not post rubbish.

Christians do not believe that Jesus is the sun. The Catholic and Orthodox churches do not teach that Jesus is the sun, and never have. Both the Bible and the Catechism are clear -- such a claim would be idolatry, and a violation of the commandments.

That is not my opinion, that is not "convoluted logic", those are the facts. We can contrast that with your intentional disregard of the facts, instead choosing to ignore them in favour of your own opinion that the Catholics are hiding the fact that we really think that Jesus is the sun.

Jesus is the spiritual light of the world, and that is what is being depicted in iconography, not that Jesus is the sun or a sun god.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


I don't think anyone is accusing present day Christians of worshiping the sun or confusing Jesus with the sun. What the OP and others, including myself, are saying is that Jesus was deliberately and systematically inserted into society through the solar religions of the day and area. There is a great deal of evidence of that.

Certainly many early Christians were still worshiping Serapis, Osiris, Mithra, Isis, Athena, etc., while pretending to be worshiping Jesus and Mary. Old habits die hard, and look how fastidiously the ancient Hebrews held onto their pagan ideas, while being Jewish.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by windword
 



Certainly many early Christians were still worshiping Serapis, Osiris, Mithra, Isis, Athena, etc., while pretending to be worshiping Jesus and Mary.

What is your evidence for that claim?



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


All the tons of overwhelming evidence that's already been put forth in this thread and all the other hundreds of other threads that have addressed Jesus as the Sun God theme. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel for you!



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 10:58 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


I have seen zero evidence in this thread of Catholics worshiping sun gods while pretending to worship Jesus and Mary.

Maybe I missed it, that's why I asked.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:04 PM
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Here is what I want to know:

OP, is your claim that the Catholic church tried to incorporate elements of sun worship in order to better convert pagans, or that Christianity itself is based on sun worship? That is a very important difference that begs clarification. There could be a case for the former (although I don't see one), but I think the latter is sufficiently debunked for anyone who has a good understanding of the tenants of not only early Christianity, but the religion it was founded on, which strictly forbade sun worship of any kind.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


It funny how religion like to point a gun to it self. Doesn't it.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Well, then you just refuse to see. But, I'm sure there are others who are not quite so obtuse.

Here's another recent thread, same issue, different angle.

The Mystery Religion – Jesus (The Sun of God)



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:11 PM
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reply to post by windword
 


Again, I have seen zero evidence in this thread of Catholics worshiping sun gods while pretending to worship Jesus and Mary.

Maybe I missed it, that's why I asked.

Kindly limit yourself to this thread, so that we can understand why you interjected yourself into it.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:19 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 





There could be a case for the former (although I don't see one), but I think the latter is sufficiently debunked for anyone who has a good understanding of the tenants of not only early Christianity, but the religion it was founded on, which strictly forbade sun worship of any kind.



The early days of post Nicene Christianity labeled "Judaizers" as heretics. Jewish law didn't mean squat to early Christians. www.newadvent.org...

The target converts were pagans, who were already "idolaters", worshiping solar deities such as Serapis, Osiris, Mithra, Isis, Artemis, Athena, etc. These cults/religions were suddenly illegal. So yeah, it only figures that there were early "Christians" who were praying to pagan deities, while pretending to pray to Jesus and Mary.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:21 PM
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windword
reply to post by DeadSeraph
 





There could be a case for the former (although I don't see one), but I think the latter is sufficiently debunked for anyone who has a good understanding of the tenants of not only early Christianity, but the religion it was founded on, which strictly forbade sun worship of any kind.



The early days of post Nicene Christianity labeled "Judaizers" as heretics. Jewish law didn't mean squat to early Christians. www.newadvent.org...

The target converts were pagans, who were already "idolaters", worshiping solar deities such as Serapis, Osiris, Mithra, Isis, Artemis, Athena, etc. These cults/religions were suddenly illegal. So yeah, it only figures that there were early "Christians" who were praying to pagan deities, while pretending to pray to Jesus and Mary.



I think it's safe to say that constantine was one of them, too. That does nothing to answer my question, however.



posted on Feb, 28 2014 @ 11:27 PM
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reply to post by DeadSeraph
 


Well, I can't speak for the OP, but the title of the thread: "Bible Alterations and Converting the Sun Worshipers", at least the last part, Converting the Sun Worshipers, was, in my opinion, the goal, and paganism was deliberately and systematically inserted into Christian, narrative, ritual and doctrine.

edit on 28-2-2014 by windword because: (no reason given)






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