Russian helicopters heading to Sevastopol, Ukraine

reply to post by crazyewok


Do you think Russia is going to nuke anyone? If they did everyone else would do the same and the world would be charred then what would be the point? Talk about paranoid.

templar knight
What makes this strange is that in the Crimea, from the pictures on the BBC, the locals and the police have accepted this group of unmarked soldiers (dont know why they dont have russian markings?) and seemingly just carried on. The BBC speculate that russia may compare to NATO intervention for Albanians in Serbia and say they are protecting their own people. To date, no shots have been fired in anger.
As the beeb pointed out though- NATO went in to stop ethnic cleansing in Albania, so the comparison is wrong, We will have to see how this develops.

They have accepted it because they are extremely pro-Russian.

Does it defy logic? Yes. Why the Tartars show such support for the country that devastated them is beyond me, but it is their choice.

Does that matter at all? No.

Does anyone know if the Ukrainian Military are able to put up
much of a fight against Russian forces?

I have no clue .

SLAYER69
reply to post by crazyewok

 

That's the flaw in your argument.

The only way to appose Russia is to go to war? I haven't read one reply so far NOT ONE advocating war with Russia over the Ukraine. However, I HAVE seen plenty of people defending and justifying Russia's bullying and the stealing of land that belongs to another country.

edit on 28-2-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

So what you suggest.

Either Russia takes all Ukraine
We just let Russia take JUST Crimea
We go to war with Russia

What are the options you see?

SLAYER69
reply to post by crazyewok

 

I HAVE seen plenty of people defending and justifying Russia's bullying and the stealing of land that belongs to another country.

edit on 28-2-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Sounds very much like the way The US was formed.

reply to post by crazyewok


You know the one thing Russia desperately wants is to be Globally recognition as a world leader/player. This just wreaks more like old school Communist thuggery. Considering the all loved Putin is former KGB that doesn't surprise me.

He'll be judged just like Bush was...

peck420
Tell that to the largest pro-Russian voting block. The people that were there before the Russians or the Ukrainians...the Tartars.

When the Soviet union fell apart, why did that area go to Ukraine?

peck420
Very easy to state when your country has never been invaded by either side.

Its is easily said because its a truth. Why would a person move from country A to country B, only to demand country A behave in a manner / treat him the same as the country he left?

If I were to move to France I would not presume to argue that France should adapt to my culture / way of doing things. I should adapt to their country and go from there. If people don't like it then move.

peck420
Allowing a population to take control of their own territory as they see fit doesn't require justification.

Invading a sovereign nation requires justification.
If the territory was Russian, why did it go to Ukraine when the Soviet Union broke apart?

peck420
Actually, by your own definition, the 'Argentina' would currently be the Ukraine.

Argentina invaded the Falklands, not the other way around. Argentina wants territory it thinks its entitled to, even when the occupants of the island voted to remain with the UK.

Argentina is very much Russia in that scenario.

Even today, they refuse to accept the results of the vote. If that's the case, why proclaim they would abide by the results?

peck420
Did anybody in Crimea get an option after?

Deflecting a question with a question... Might of been easier to just yell NuKeS?!?!?!?!?!

Did the people of the Crimea ask for a vote?

reply to post by alldaylong


Or how GB created most of it's former Empire.

SLAYER69
reply to post by crazyewok

 

You know the one thing Russia desperately wants is to be Globally recognition as a world leader/player. This just wreaks more like old school Communist thuggery. Considering the all loved Putin is former KGB that doesn't surprise me.

He'll be judged just like Bush was...

O I dont disgaree he is acting like a thug.

But hes a thug going to walk away with the Crimea.

So the choices we have are to make sure thats the only thing he walks away with OR we start world war 3

crazyewok

SLAYER69
reply to post by crazyewok

 

That's the flaw in your argument.

The only way to appose Russia is to go to war? I haven't read one reply so far NOT ONE advocating war with Russia over the Ukraine. However, I HAVE seen plenty of people defending and justifying Russia's bullying and the stealing of land that belongs to another country.

edit on 28-2-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

So what you suggest.

Either Russia takes all Ukraine
We just let Russia take JUST Crimea
We go to war with Russia

What are the options you see?

I don't want to die any more than the next man... but I believe
a line should be drawn.. The only problem i have as i am unclear as to how this happened.

Who provoked it? if it was us .. we should get out of it = we were caught stealing the candy!
If the Russians provoked it .. then we should give them an ultimatum.

It's a difficult call and I'm glad I'm not the one having to make it.

SLAYER69
reply to post by alldaylong

 

Or how GB created most of it's former Empire.

Very true. However we gave it back in most cases.

Now it's your turn. Over to you.

SLAYER69
reply to post by alldaylong

 

Or how GB created most of it's former Empire.

True.........

But the Irish and Indian were asking for it as they had WMD

reply to post by crazyewok

rigel4
Does anyone know if the Ukrainian Military are able to put up
much of a fight against Russian forces?

I have no clue .

From Wikipedia

Armed Forces of Ukraine

From the collapse of the Soviet Union, Ukraine got the bulk of fores.

As the collapse of the Soviet Union took place before 1992 (see Novo-Ogoryovo process), Ukraine inherited one of the most powerful force groupings in Europe. According to an associate of the Conflict Studies Research Centre, James Sherr: "This grouping, its inventory of equipment and its officer corps were designed for one purpose: to wage combined arms, coalition, offensive (and nuclear) warfare against NATO on an external front".[7] At that time, the former Soviet armed forces in the Ukrainian SSR included a rocket army (43rd Rocket Army), four air force armies, an air defense army (8th Air Defence Army), three regular armies, two tank armies, one army corps and the Black Sea Fleet.[8] Altogether the Armed Forces of Ukraine included about 780,000 personnel, 6,500 tanks, about 7,000 combat armored vehicles, 1,500 combat aircraft, more than 350 ships, 1,272 strategic nuclear warheads and 2,500 tactical nuclear missiles.

Military age - 18

Available for
military service
1,149,646, age 16-49 (2008 est.[4])

Fit for
military service
6,970,035, age 16-49 (2008 est.[4])

Reaching military
age annually
256,196 (2008 est.[4])

Active personnel
159,000 (ranked 36)

Reserve personnel
1,000,000

Deployed personnel
466

CIA World Fact Book - Ukraine

Military branches:


Ground Forces, Naval Forces, Air Forces (2013)



Military service age and obligation:


18-25 years of age for compulsory and voluntary military service; conscript service obligation is 12 months for Army and Air Force, 18 months for Navy (2012)



Manpower available for military service:


males age 16-49: 10,984,394

females age 16-49: 11.26 million (2010 est.)



Manpower fit for military service:


males age 16-49: 6,893,551

females age 16-49: 8,792,504 (2010 est.)



Manpower reaching militarily significant age annually:


male: 246,397

female: 234,916 (2010 est.)



Military expenditures:


2.77% of GDP (2012)
country comparison to the world: 27
2.4% of GDP (2011)

2.77% of GDP (2010)

reply to post by rigel4


www.indexmundi.com... this might help at least compare them on paper in a variety of areas

alldaylong
Very true. However we gave it back in most cases.

Now it's your turn. Over to you.

Thank you

So are you saying Russia should 'Give it back' ?

Xcathdra
When the Soviet union fell apart, why did that area go to Ukraine?

At the fall of the USSR, Crimea was very anti-Russia, and for good reason. If Ukraine had not intervened in 1995 by removing Meshkov and scrapping the Crimean Constitution, we wouldn't be having this debate as they would have most likely continued to be pro-Ukraine.

Its is easily said because its a truth. Why would a person move from country A to country B, only to demand country A behave in a manner / treat him the same as the country he left?

If I were to move to France I would not presume to argue that France should adapt to my culture / way of doing things. I should adapt to their country and go from there. If people don't like it then move.

You don't understand. The voting block that was considered the 'swing' vote was the Tartars returning home. They had been violently forced out of the are by Stalin. For whatever reason, they have gone pro-Russia. This I have no explanation for. I would never back the government that expelled my people from my home...ever.

If the territory was Russian, why did it go to Ukraine when the Soviet Union broke apart?

See above.

Did the people of the Crimea ask for a vote?

Yes, repeatedly. The next will be held on May 25th, 2014...assuming all out war hasn't broken out by then.

So if Russia invades and wins the area, the rest of the world will truly know Putin has a small peninsula.

(Sorry, the thought made me laugh.)

SLAYER69

alldaylong
Very true. However we gave it back in most cases.

Now it's your turn. Over to you.

Thank you

So are you saying Russia should 'Give it back' ?

Give what back?